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Episode · 3 years ago

Alternative ways to manage Bipolar Disorder ...

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this special episode, I talk about the various way people manage their bipolar disorder aside from pills and therapy. Joining the discussion are Becky, from That B-Word podcast and Jim, from BipolarPod. Join the discussion at BipolarParty.com

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It's only now it's online Bible this stylecom. Yes, emotions with Bible style. All right, what's up? Come on in, it's good to have you back. So today's because show is dieppert. Today's show is a conversation I had recently with a couple of other mental health podcasters, Becky from that B word and Jim from bipolar pod you may recognize those names because we hang out and talk to them pretty frequently and they're also part of bipolar PARTYCOM. If you want to talk to us or just chat in general, go over there, get off of Facebook, you know, get a little more private situation and you can have a lot more kind of productive conversations. So it's a kind group, bipolar PARTYCOM. Oh, here, here's an ad join the party at bipolar PARTYCOM. So check it out. So today we talked about like alternative ways to address your bipolar disorder, or the way we address our bipolar disorders, I guess, is the best way to say it. But I think it's important to note that we are not talking like hippie methods or crystals or things like that. No offense if you're into those things. That's just not we're talking we're talking about things besides therapy and pills. So there are a couple of other ways. And when you deal with a lifelong condition like bipolar disorder, invariably your body chemistry changes, your attitudes, the things that you learn and your behaviors are always evolving. So it's often important to make sure you're trying methods that actually work. Like, after a while the same therapist and might not be a good match anymore. It might be time to change therapists. I've changed meds lots of times, sometimes because they weren't effective, sometimes they made me feel bad, you know, negative side effects, other times out of my control. If you lose your insurance and you don't have any money for pills, then you go to wherever you get free pills, like, you know, the free clinics and things like that. So you don't always get the keep your your doctor or the same prescriptions. There's a total inconsistency of the care there. So you know how it goes. But there are different ways besides just pills and therapy. So becky and Jim and myself just kind of have a short conversation back and forth about the different things we've tried. Back in the day and up to recently. I think you find the conversation fairly engaging. If you have bipolar disorder, no doubt you will relate to many of the things we talked about. So if you want to talk about it in like more person in a dynamic way, go to bipolar partycom. You can track us all down on twitter under or various podcast names. So cool. Thanks for being here. And right after this episode I allude to another episode about how to address bipolar stigma. Can we use the same tools that the homosexual community used? So if you're interested in that topic, listen to the podcast right after this one. That's pretty good tease. Yeah, okay, cool, have an awesome day. hit me up, email me, follow me on twitter, all the typical cliches. Do those things, but most importantly, like subscribe and leave me a review on itunes. I notice that's one thing. I'm missing. Thousands of downloads, you know, plenty of twitter followers so far, and like one or two reviews. Come on, please, just leave a review. What's so hard about it? I'll leave you one, all right. Cool, all right, get out of your check out this conversation and listen to the next one. Right after it cool by join the party at bipolar PARTYCOM.

Good, by the way. That's that's johnny motions. Hi, I'm Jim. Hey, Jack, Jim, and then we have becky, and this is becky. Hi, Becky, hi, Justin chance anybody wants to know who's talking right now. Yeah, yeah, there's so and we all we each of us have our own podcast. Becky has that B word, which covers bipolar and borderline and other beautiful thanks. Jim Has the bipolar pod and I also have bipolar style. So if you don't have enough podcasts about bipolar and or borderline to listen to check those out. You'll dig them. Maybe I'm getting text here. Yeah, so, I mean go ahead. So the topic that was floated today was alternative treatments for bipolar disorder. HMM, that's a good one. I got a lot to say and I think bipolar Joe will like this too. Wherever you are, Bipolar Joe, we love you. What's that weird noise? You guys? I think somebody was just trying to send me unsolicited Dick pick on skype. Oh yeah, Yay, Yay, soul, that is sick picked during the podcast messaging me. Oh God, we get off a skype real quick. Oh my goodness, what are you doing? I'm on the wrong platform. Hey, I am solicited. Man, I did not ask for this, not today, anyway. You just that was last week. What are you doing now? I'm just pointing. Sorry, it's okay, totally joking. That's just I mean, my husband does listen to this. It what. You know what? It's kind of next level. I just like start to realize why I like Jim and I don't get those is because we have pictures of ourselves there, so no one's going to send us a pick. But next level, Uber and lift people. You put a picture of a hot chick in your profile and then you get more drivers faster. Oh my God, I never thought of that. When I was a last driver, I could use that. Yeah, fuck, yeah, it's they're like, Oh yeah, I'm going there, I'm or and it works both ways. If you think, Oh yeah, I want a hot lift driver, then you'd like, Nope, next car. NOPE, next car, and vice versa. Like if you look like a hot chick, the lift drivers will come pick you up faster and they're all disappointed when they get there. The like, Oh, you're Linda. I'm like now I'm John. See, I was a driver, and I mean I could have used that, I guess, to try to get more people to ride with me, right, but then they could have canceled so quickly once I pulled up. Okay, yeah, that's not the car ordered. Sorry, I'll walk. I probably get pushed off the platform. Yeah, I don't do that anymore. But anyway, on the creepiness of sharing pictures inappropriately, I'm glad you got that cleaned off. picky. Yeah, that's the second time today. Unfortunate. Have you guys? Do you guys use? Well, you don't, Jim, you're married to yeah, I'm not married, as I have a girlfriend, but I'm not married, but I mean, yeah, you're not in the Chene, the dating gene pool. I was just wondering because there's an APP called bumble, right, it's kind of like tender. I've used it. Yeah, but now bumble also has two other sections called BFF, where you could find a best friend the same way through Swiping, and also business acquaintances, so you can like look for business networking people the same way through swiping. Interesting. So not only that dating. So they've added more to it yeah, yeah, they're taking the same database basically and just repackaging different, different views of it, I guess, is the best way to put it. So those people...

...in those things are already in there and you want to like jump over to the business section and meet local people who are into whatever. Yeah, but how awkward when you're like trolling all the bedsm like people and then you see them as a business contact for your company? Well, the same, yeah or no. It's just creepy because basically what's happening now is since the guys that can't get laid on the dating part, they'll go over into the friendship part or into the business part and just start hitting on chicks that way. You know, it's classic American Man of Yeah, there's not enough opportunities for men to do that. Already. They had to make a couple of more. So frustrated. So how many type of treatments is there for bipolar disorder? Look, yeah, let's go over the main ones. Okay, obviously we get medication and we've get we get therapy. That's the standard treatment, right, and you're you're on Veri Lar, aren't you? Bicky? We both are, I think Jim and I both are. Yep, oh, see, are you and you boast? Both must be relatively new to vary lar, because I think it's a relatively new drug right last to her. So years. HMM, yeah, a couple months. What's the what's the status? How's it going? Excellent for me, I don't like. I don't know. I still have a false sense of not able to tell if a medications working for me yet or not. I'm getting rave reviews from other people. I will say that at first it made me feel like I had Super Adhd, but I've overcome that feeling by taking my medicine at night rather than in the morning. I could so nice. Maybe that's something that's yeah, that's probably that was always a sign for me that my that the medicine worked was when that I couldn't tell it was working. I didn't feel bad, I didn't feel Madic, I just like, I guess, but it's that kind of apathy towards my medication is when I normally think it's fucking working. Right, I will say I'm Miss I missed some of my manic episodes. Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah, that's an interesting thing. Would because I like to romanticize about mania, but I also use conversational shortcut, and I'm not actually talking about mania mania, and you're probably not either. There you know, like hyplomatic there's that little strain. We just get just enough like yeah, fucking creative, going to go make some stuff. Yep, I'd love that. And unfortunately that's the first thing that's usually killed off by medication. So yeah, I feel you there. So guys have experiment. We have had the pills that they give us and the therapy, which go hand in hand. It's not just one or the other, you know. I mean you could try therapy without the pill, but I mean you would only get so far. Yeah, and therapy is expensive. Therapy is hard to come by because it actually requires a human to be there to listen. And even if it's over the Internet, there's a lot of good, you know, chat based therapy online. Now. I've done some of myself a couple years ago. It's well established, trustworthy and all that, but it still requires a human on the other end of that phone. Yeah, not too much in a lot of them don't take insurance, though. Right, even more expensive. Well, is that the worst thing, though? It's all compounded. They don't take insurance. So you have to pay out a pocket, but you have a disability, so the chances of you having a job that pays enough to pay out a pocket or pretty slim. Yeah, always it's the constant struggle of a mentally disabled person, and I don't use that term disabled lightly, but there are many, many times in my life where I'm like, I just can't fucking do it. This must be what disabled feels like. And I know what lazy feels like. It's a different feeling. I know what you know, I don't give a fuck feels...

...like. It's not that feeling either. There's just there's something about having a disability, especially when it comes to crippling depression, that takes you out of the game is such a hardcore way. Yep, well, you agree. So. So if you can even manage to get to the phone or to call somebody to get therapy, it almost impossible to actually get to the place. Yeah, yeah, and that's that's if the disease itself doesn't come up and grab you and say no, you're not going to therapy, you don't need that. Let's go. Stand all the money in the bank account. Let's go. You know, you know what I mean. Just all the all the other hard things about getting to therapy, on top of the the money and the scheduling and all that. Yeah, some it's amazing anybody gets therapy. That reminds me of something else you remember. I don't know if you guys talk about guns much on your shows, but I get pretty political on some of mine and we're talking about guns and you know the whole thing. I'm not going to get into a gun debate, except for the part where they talked about like people who don't registered guns are outlaws, you know, and only the good guys are registering their guns, that sort of thing. It reminds me a lot of the mental health status in America because in a way it's it's the only the people that are responsible enough to go seek mental healthcare are the ones being labeled. So, therefore, there's a whole section of America out there that refused to see a psychiatrist and they're running around like loaded guns because they're ignorant of their own mental conditions. That drives me crazy. So we've got a lot of irresponsible brain owners out there that have not registered their brains. That's true. That, yeah, that cut that phrase. Register your brain just kind of really hits a like a big brother Vibe to me. It does. It's creepy and it's also well, it's also creeping. The way. That's why gun second amendment types don't want to register their guns. They feared the big brother aspect of it. They think, well, if they know I have a gun, then they'll know which gun it is and where I keep it. They'll be able to come take it if they want. Whoever they is, I guess, mysterious super drones or something else, hilary or something, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, definitely. So that the whole notion that we're not getting treatment is one thing like that. Those of us who know we need treatment. It's hard for us to get it. But then there's the rest of society that need treatment, or at least to be inspected. Like go have your car checked out, you know you have your computer checked out, but how many people actually go have their brain checked out, not on a regular basis, but even once? And this kind of all speaks back to how trump, in my estimation, has a Nosa noitia. You know, the lack of insight. Just doesn't he just doesn't know he has a mental illness. Because he doesn't know to go to see a doctor, and just that to me is mind boggling. So it's then gets to the point like, well, if those of us who know we have or have up to the label of mental disorder, what are our choices like? Is it only therapy and pills? What's left? What's next? Well, there was a new story not too long ago about Keneman being a possible depression medication. Didn't say necessarily bipolar, but depression specifically. That's what I want treatment for. To I would take treatment for my depression any day over the treatment for my hypo mania or mania. Right. Well, as long as you know you're not trying to fly your car somewhere, then that's so true, and I don't write that. Is that attacking both the the bipolar and the depression, or just the depression, because from what I was told, you can't be on a depressant when you're bipolar. But I'm hearing a lot from a lot of people that they have been put on too antidepressants. Yeah, I'm on antidepressants and I don't...

...think it makes me manic. Of course I'm on a mood stabilizer to actually write. Same time, so it would probably be an entirely different story without the mood stabilizer. Yeah, I've been told the same thing since the same thing as Jim's been told. Well, I don't they don't say that. No, people can't. They say no, you can't know. They basically say no, we're not giving you antidepress ausence because we think it'll fuck with your head. So that kind of put you in a quandary. So you have manic depression and doctors simply won't give you a pill for depression. That's really fucked up. My depression goes like up and down, but they're I guess they're saying that the Ryler that me and Becky are on should counteract with the depression. Like I'm being regularly checked to see how my depression level is while I'm on the frailer. I don't know about you, Nicky. Are you I go in every six weeks or so, and do they checked for the depression to see how to depress? You have been or HMM? Yeah, well, they asked the standard questions because to do that little questionnaire, MMM HMM, so far, so good. Huh. Yeah, I mean it goes back and forth. Last time wasn't as good, but I think it's on an upward trend in general. Same here. So you guys, hear of conversion therapy for gay people? Yes, do you ever feel like that's what's being done to us? Oh, is this? Yeah, you've been talking about this on twitter, about how it's so must they just in Britt they just said, well, fuck it, let's embrace our it used to be called sexual orientation disorder, then it got bumped down to sexual orientation disturbance. But being gay has been in the diagnostic manual for mental disorders for a long since. It came out in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight. Alla up until nineteen eighty nine, being gay was a mental disorder. Right. So I'm like, well, why? Why are we people with bipolar disorder accepting conversion therapy? Why can't we be accepted? HMM, well, I mean it's a little so and so to get to the disorder thing, just to help clarify that or even prompt the conversation in a little bit. A lot of one of the main aspects of disorder is not just that your thoughts or actions are deviant from the society you live in, but the more important one is that it causes you distress. So clearly, back in the s being gay would cause someone distress. It might cause someone distress now because the way we treat gay people too. That said, sometimes, you know, a lot of the times, unless I'm depress, my bipolar disorder does not cause me distress. What does cause me distress is the label the doctors have given me. So they're in kind of lies, of really deep conundrum. Is The label that we're giving causing us the distress? That then feeds the disorder? I mean the question is where you stressed when, before you knew that you had bipolar? I was stressed about specific instances and specific feelings when I was labeled. Now I've become generally an overall distressed that I have a life long disorder. MMM, see now that is that is it, because, I mean, you have multiple things in the beginning before you find out, and maybe you could have singled them out a little bit easier. But now you have something that's, you said, general, but it's huge. It's a wide spectrum. It's omnipresent in my life. Now before I might have just been sad about that one thing or I might have been overreactive to that one incident. But now it's like, oh well, that must be bipolar disorder. If I can't figure out what it is, it must be. You know what I mean. It's so kind of consumes you once somebody labels you, and in our current society that label is stigmatized,...

...as you know, am moral, like a kind of ethical failure that Oh, we're just lazy, we can't we can't think our way through it. It's all in your head. Come on, buck up, brother. You know that kind of thing not even just a lazy part of it but also dangerous in society really quick. I mean I just saw on twitter one of the Pennsylvania state police. They had basically a guy boarded up himself in a home and ended up shooting onto the cops, and right in the label was that he was recently released from the hospital for Schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. There you go. So of course you have all that and the bad guy. Yeah, need a scapegoat for all those gun crimes. Unbelievable. So here's my regiment. This was so I've been taking meds for probably fifteen years, maybe right. This is why I jumped on the chance when when Becky said, Hey, let's do it on alternative medicine. So I'll try to be as forthcoming as I can. Okay, so I've taken all the antipsychotics I can think of. Sarah Quel Lamiquel with the two prominent ones, but then the all, the whole list. A couple of them made me slightly suicidal, so I had to stop those. And when I change drugs it was typically because I would run to that point in my life where things get out of hand, you lose your job and then you lose your insurance. So basically you just have to get whatever you get. Right of the fifteen years, you eventually start to coming back to the same ones. I never hit the VRAI lar mark because in January of last year, two thousand and seventeen, I'd moved to Louisiana with my last set of pills from Los Angeles and I've said, well, when I take these, they're gone. When I take these, they're gone. I'm in Louisiana, there's no pot out here, there's no I mean, I don't do street drugs. So that was an issue. But you know, I really like the pot and I was feeling like I just needed to change. Right. Got To Louisiana, no pot, got off all the psych meds and just kind of cleared out for a while and honestly I felt fine. Not to say, and I guess we have to preface this where this is not advised to you, obviously listeners, take your meds, follow your doctor's advice and do it's right for you anyway. So I'm in Louisiana. It's about three or four months in. I get really bored. I maybe mannic you know, I'm just like agitated. I got to get out of this down. There's like forty people in this town. I was literally like in the middle of nowhere and maybe use that hypomatic energy to move myself back to California, which is all fine. But when I got back to California, you start getting in that rat race again, right, you got to go to work, you got to get off the train in the morning. got it a little like fuck, this is too much. But fortunately in California we've also got medical marijuana, so I tried that again. So the way I use medical marijuana is the way maybe an asthmatic might use a rescue and hailer. So where I don't I'm not madic enough to where I need constant Sarah Quell to tamper my feelings. But I do get occasional binges where I'm like feeling Lancy, like let's go do some you just that that gurgling feeling that boils up from the inside that here it comes. I'll reach for the rescue and Hailer, I'll reach for my bomb, take a couple hits, jells me out. Everything's good. So I've been doing that for like a year and it works for me. I haven't needed to take any other drugs. I take like a multivitamin and some weed and things have been going fairly well. I don't want to sound...

...like a pot salesman by any means. I know a lot of people live in places where you could be executed just for having some pot. We've got like listeners in Saudi Arabia even, and I know most of America it's illegal. So I don't want to recommend something and say hey, you gotta try this Shit right here. It's perfect to people who just don't have access to it, but as far as alternative treatments go, that's been working for me. Have you guys ever tried that at all? I have tried. Oh Yeah, I will say that the mellowing out aspect of marijuana definitely comes the sensations of Oh, I need to do something and you know, maybe it's you gets to the point where I don't know what I want to do because I have too many things going through my mind right take a bit bit of a hit and it knows you out to the point where you can at least the grasp those ideas and you can literally just pause and pull them in and be able to take them in unlike before you had the racing thoughts. That was what I used it for. Every time I had the racing thoughts, I would take a hit and it would be all gone. I would I would be fine, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, in Pennsylvania we do have medical marijuana. Just got read, just gotten stated, but bipolar is not one of the one of the diagnosis that you can have. This mean you can have is for PTSD, which I believe I do have. It just a matter of getting diagnosed for it. But bipolar isn't a treatable thing under that. It's mostly under the serious disorders, well, and a lot of pain disorders. To like people yet that have a lot of pain. And what's really interesting, before becky chimes in, is because you might have something to say on this as well. There are enough studies out there that show that heavy marijuana use as a teenager can actually trigger the same types of symptoms in an adult that a bipolar person experiences. What I'm saying is that all that pot I smoked as a teenager could have caused by bipolar or what appears to be bipolar now, which sounds controversial, but you know, there's enough studies out there that kind of say, HMM, maybe you fucked up, maybe you shouldn't smoke so much pot as a teenager and maybe I now kind of require it to balance me out. I'm not sure the theory. Like I said, I'm not a scientist or a doctor in this aspect at all, but yeah, there's some, definitely some downsides. If you're young person, just stay off the drugs. Good, good. Yeah, I mean for teenagers, when your brain is still developing and everything like that, which I guess it doesn't tell you're what, early twenty s for a guy? Yeah, something like that. It's probably you know, yeah, let that Du it's not to yeah, better to just let your brain grow for a while. Yeah, it's all those well, those little minecraft blocks are assembling themselves, don't you know. Don't throw a bunch of junk in there. Yeah, and I one or two about if some of my previous drug habits influenced my development of Bipoloy dis order. But then I think about everything that happened before I was introduced to marijuana and alyst and all of that and right, yeah, that's a little still sare. Yeah, it was still there. So I don't think that really, for me, contributed to it anyway. Yeah, and I've had doctors that full know full well that I smoke we and they just treat around it, I guess. I don't know what their medical term is for it, but they don't send me off to a drug Rehab Clinic. They don't send me to a dual diagnosis meeting for drug addicts and crazy people. They're just like, oh, you smoke weed, okay, well, here, take these pills and did it a drink plenty of water, or you know whatever they say. So the doctors, at least in California, they don't really care. I know if you're a military...

...vet you have to get off the weed. They will not treat your mental conditions if you are on the weed. So there's that as well. Hmm, I know I didn't have any PSD and PA. They do able you if you smoke marijuana and you go into the hospital and you tell them that they do put you in there, that you're abusing drugs, because, yeah, yeah, my, I mean there are not too many boxes to check on their form. So that's the box that gets checked. Your abusing and then you also have to do P test. They want to check your blood to make us clear if you're going to get any other meds. It's tough, tough work being mentally ill. Right. So what do you think the Ketamine does? I'm really interested that. I'd like the psycho not. I want to experiment with all the things and I can't find them. I want to experiment with Ketamine. I want to experiment with DMT. Well, kind of mean told something that you can still get, isn't it? I don't know, maybe in Mexico and he's a horse tranquilizer. You can you can still get Ken of EV. No, I'm pretty sure you mean. Yeah, I don't know if you can buy it online, but I mean horse Drinklis know I had heard somewhere and I've actually on Youtube. There is there's a channel where he goes and takes the psycho reactive chemicals and tries them out. He he did a whole episode on Ketamine and from my understanding is ketamine is on its way to being banned in America, America, but it has not happened yet, and so that means it's still I'm guessing it works then jotten. In some countries, though, I know that they do use it as a treatment. Uh Huh. Yeah, and there are studies, like Becky had said, you know that they're they're doing within America. As far as I know, there's there's a few going on. From what I heard is it attaches itself, similar to like what marijuana does, attaches to the receptors and then blocks any of that negative chemical imbalance, if you will, like the sit just prevents the synapses from over firing like that. Right. They have either of you guys ever taken Kinneman or special k? I have not known it's well, I started I got married in the nine s and started having kids, so I got kind of square, kind of straight edge almost. So I don't understand ecstasy. I've never taken ecstasy, molly, m DMT. I don't understand Kanye West. There's a there's like a whole chunk of like culture I just don't understand or get, which I would love to get into, except Kanye, but I'd like to know about DMT and ecstasy and all those things. Well, I don't know. For me, I I probably was taking away more than a therapeutic dose, I imagine, but I can I'd see how it kind of wipes your sense of self away almost. So I think on a smaller, less intense level, I can see how that could probably help if your chronically depressed or if you're in a severe depression. Right like an etch a sketch, yeah it, just shake it, just shake your head, just sketch all around and all those like grooves that you carved in your brain and those nasty, ugly pictures you drew are now just a clean slate. That would be nice. Yeah, it to. Okay, maternal the sunshine stuff right there to okay, check this out. So tell me if I'm talking too much to I feel like I'm...

...dominating. I don't like that. Feeling speaks to my borderline personality disorder. I feel like I'm standing up on stage just hogging the MIC. But here's another story. Okay, so on Father's Day weekend one of my kids came over and we had planned to go up to the mountains where my dad lives, and we're like cool. So he's stopped by city, got some stuff and all good to go and mind by kids like an adult. He's eighteen, and his brother and I went up to my dad's house in Tahoe and then we get up there and so my youngest kid brought some acid with him. Like, Oh, dude, what, that's how you're having so many epiphanies. He told he told me the story like of how he got it. He just went up to the not him, but like him and his buddy or whatever, just went up to hate Ashbury and we're looking around like to you know, twenty year olds looking for acid, I guess, and apparently acid dealers just jump out of the woodwork, give you the eye and you give him Tenner, twenty bucks, and go with some flst. So the kid brings home like three hits acid. Sun Number two is not having it this weekend. He's not into it. He's generally open to the stuff like that, but not just not this week, and he figured he's going to be the responsible adult. The young one Saturday morning takes a hit and half, leaving me a hit and a half, and I'm like what, I'm an adult, I'm a fucking grown up. I mean, are you kidding me? I haven't done acid like thirty five years at least. Something's just ridiculous right. But I'm also thinking, well, fuck, I don't know what my kid just took, I'm gonna have to jump in after him. Oh Yeah, you know what I mean. I don't want him tripping alone like well, fortunately, my dad had got us a condo about a hundred yards away from his place, so we had our own space to chill and everything anyway belong and short of it. That shit was amazing, Holy Shit and scary as fuck. My my whole reality, time and space, were folding in and collapsing on itself, and I don't even know how that's those aren't even the right words to put to that scenario. Reality was pixelating with things on screens and at some point I just had to lay down and close my eyes and trip. Now, I kept trying to dig into the kind of the center of the onion. I was like digging deeper and deeper than my brain. I felt like I was trying to find something. I'm like, what is? I'm trying to find what. And then as I got near the center of the onion, so to speak. I don't know how to explain what I was digging through in my psychedelic mind trip, but us in nearer the core, this this kind of mantra, kept bubbling up, saying you already have everything you need, you already have everything you need, and I'm like what? So I'd really after I finished trip in the full next day, I just looked around and realized how much I really do have everything I need, even if I don't keep it all in my apartment or in my pocket right now. Everything I need is in my existence right if I need money, there's some over there. Just I'll go work for some money. If I need a partner, there there's humans on the earth to become partners with. So my whole worldview change so dramatically. I was thinking, Wow, this is amazing. If I had planned this better, if I had some like us meditation or spoken Word Therapy, I really believe you could program some shit out of your mind, just bad things completely out of your mind, using those kind of hallucinogenic drugs. It was it was incredible. That's yeah, I really think you that mean. I listen to another podcast recently that had some of the hosts be on DMT and that was kind of what they were saying. In a way, it's almost like a like a rebirth process, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,...

...it was weird too, because I was fully conscious. HMM, ninety nine percent, I mean like one person of the time I can snap out of it. If somebody asked me a question, I could come to an answer the question lucidly. I couldn't really go hang out with people or anything, and I always just wanted to be with the music or the dark or whatever the lights. But yeah, just the idea that it wiped so clear. I didn't lose track of the bad thoughts of my past. You know, I didn't like it, didn't erase my memory or anything like that. It just helped me to reframe life in general, like things aren't going to get better than we have them now. Gent I mean in the grand scheme of things, like, unless you're one of those persons that likes to have all your shit in your house, like, Oh, I need more stuff, I need more stuff. Well, you have the entire world, like you know, I want an animal, I want to I want a cat, and we get a cat because they exist in the world. I don't know, it sounds weird, like all those things that are profound and you really experience when you're on LSD are often hard to put to words after you are not on LSD. But what I was thinking very specifically about that once I had taken it, I'm like, well, what can I fix with my brain? I haven't taken LSD in a long time. What can I do? This is the first time I've taken LSD since somebody labeled me, since someone told me you have bipolar disorder, and in many ways I started just peeling that back. I'm like, well, you say what you want, and you say what you want, and you know, I'll wear whatever label I want and I'm going to act how I want, because if you know that you're a kind person and you're just doing the best you can in life, it doesn't really matter what people label you're write right. Absolutely, yeah, I who you are. Hopefully, yeah, yeah, exactly. To simple again, another one of those weird things I can't recommend. I do a lot of things for my own self that I just can't recommend other people do, but it's fascinating. I guess that's why we talked and have podcast to share those experiences. But Anyway, it was fully scary, like I just didn't know many times where I was. That that feeling literally of time and space collapsing like a wrinkle in time. You ever read that book before the movie came out? Oh yeah, yeah, it's like remember when you read the read the book and it had that and like you imagined, like where the dad was and where this voices in those shapes were coming from. That's what this LSD trip was like. You just everything was so imaginative and complete and very profound. Like. I mean, I still carry that piece of torn up, like tablet paper that the acid was in there. So anytime I start to get frustrated, I literally look up this, look at this little tiny torn up piece of paper and Think, Oh, I already have everything I need and then I'll start fresh from there. So, yeah, I've been able to overcome other problems in the past week just by what the fuck? How do you do this? What's the thing? OPRA always talks about envisioning. You know the term. It's like secret yeah, it's like picturing something, manifesting all that kind of stuff. So things like that have been working out. That's it kind of a dangerous topic to go into because in a way the whole idea of manifesting stuff can get flipped on you and people will say no, then you're blaming the victim for their circumstances, which, yeah, I guess is is a way to look at manifesting to but in this case we'll just take it for the positive side of things. So, yeah, and it all changed because of an acid trip. That's awesome. I mean I think the acid can be a really it can be a really useful tool if you like have some shit to work here or something like that. But yeah, I'm freaking scared as hell to try that again, man, like I'm just for dead certain that I'm going to have like the worst ship in the world and end up jumping off of something. Let's see, that's that's where I've been told that. You think quite that you will. Yeah, yeah, I know exactly. So I can do that, although have either of you ever heard of diviner's stage? Sobviat of an...

Orum Salvia? Yes, yeah, that that's wicked. That's I'll never do it again. I think that's that's the only thing that I've done outside of pot like. I've never done any hard drugs. I've never done anything like that and I never felt the need to do that. But one of my friends had bought some Salvia. We couldn't get the regular stuff, so we wanted to see what the difference was. And Man did I have a trip and a half. I mean the whole roof of the house turned into like a a triangle of a attic and then there was a dresser in the drawers would pull out and melt and everything smelled of like just burning tire. It was just horrible turning tire. Yeah, that now, that's you'll never forget that smell now. Neither. No, it's pretty much what it tasted like to when it when it came in. You know, you know how you had to take it in, you had to hold it for so long, and it's just like the smell and taste of it is what burned into my brain during the trip and it was just and apparently it was hilarious, because when you do things like that you have to be sick to be safe. You have to have a spotter, you have to have somebody that's not going to partake, just in case something happens, then need to call nine, one one or whatever. And apparently it was the hilarious thing ever. I mean he was laughing his head off when I was done and I was sweat and balls. Yeah, it's that's nuts. Good thing for spotters, right. MMM. So is our very, very safe? Yeah, right them. Well, before we go too long, we should talk about nutrition, healthful eating and exercise, because if people see the headline of this podcast down alternative methods for treating bipolar disorder, we would suck if we didn't mention those things. Oh, definitely, but back you go ahead and tell us about this. Well, I was reading an article recently about probiotics and how that there is some sort of gut brain connection. Big that. Yeah, if you have something wrong with your gut floora then really affects your mental status. So we can I eat it has probiotics, a probiotic? Yeah, already probiotics, or or yogurt, yogs like. That's what I was going for. I think yogurt has probiotics in it. Yeah, I know that's a trip. So you ever take a look at guts in a like a medical book? They look just like our brain. They're all squiggly like that and in fact our guts have more neurotransmitters in them then our brains do and they're the same type of neurotransmitters. So the Gut and the brain are definitely interconnected. If your brains not right, you'll have upset stomach, if your guts not right, it'll affect your brain. So it's kind of a circular cohabitation they share. HMM. So my biggest diet faux paw is sugar by far. I think shouldars poisonous. I think it'll kill us all faster than we should and I definitely think it fucks with people's brains in a really bad way. But it's addictive. I can't stop it. I haven't I haven't tried very hard. I don't have a life partner to help me manage it. It's the one thing that I think if I could manage my sugar better, it all be great. I thought I was dying of kidney failure with the doctor. Nothing's wrong with me, the fine it just needed a new mattress. But those little things, when you start feeling that and you know how much sugar you eat, it's like a wakeup call, especially the older you get. Our organs don't last forever, right, right? What? And Sugar? Also, speaking of organs, that's the other problem I have with...

...pharmaceuticals, is because they junk up your filter organs, all of them. Your pancreas, your kidneys, your livers, at least pot doesn't do that. Clogs up your lungs. I guess you just got to pick. What's your organ you want to fuck up? Yeah, but pretty well, help the brain feel better. Yeah, do you guys have any diet or nutrition tips that have helped? Well, I mean the Big One, I think you're right, is the sugar, because that, I mean I notice that almost immediately if I stopped eating sugar and I can notice a improve mental clarity almost immediately, like within twenty four hours. Wow, I think I'm too hooked on it, because if I after twenty four hours of no sugar, I get a headache, I get fucking angry, irritable. Yeah, I think I'm addicted to it. That and or caffeine. And Caffeine's the other thing, right. Caffeine's just equally bad as sugar, especially for Manic folks. I would imagine caffeine is so wonderful, oh it's so great, I drink it all sot him CAS. See. That's the problem, though, is that I hope myself on caffeine and then probably don't realize that I have a lot of symptoms from it. But that's where drinking water, plenty of water, will come in handy, because just like sugar, a lot of sugar products or a lot of sodas or things like that will dehydrate you. So you'll be amazed that how much better you'll feel when you rehydrate. HMM, that's true. Yep, it's the other thing I don't do either. Don't drink your water. I do not enough, you know. But again, it's a simple fix. I don't. Why don't? Why don't I fix the simple things? Eat less sugar, drink more water. I'm fact, if I were a doctor treating somebody with a bipolar disorder, I was straight up tell them cut out the sugar, drink more water. Yeah, I think that would make you feel a lot better. And again, just human nature, we don't do some of the simplest things that make us feel better. Do you guys drink alcohol? Rare, unfortunate, dog dogs all. Yeah, beer. I know my when you say on fortunately, what's that mean? Do you let? You don't drink to excess? To you, I don't. Never caught that from you. Well, not as much anymore. I now I'll drink on occasion, even though I really shouldn't because I'm on medicine. But I don't drink and of the last time I drink two or three times be drunk was maybe a year, two years ago. What was the situation like? A celebration? No, when I drink to be drunk. Nose, because I was pissed off. Oh yeah, okay, that's good. You don't drink too much then. Yeah, now, but I used to have pretty bad drinking problem before I met my husband. And so, did you have a bad drinking problem before you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder? MMM, yes, and then when you got diagnosed, did you understand that you were just basically trying to tame your mania? Did that have anything to do with you like lessening the alcohol consumption? No, Nope, I yeah, now, because when I first got diagnosed I didn't have a PSYCHIA. Yeah, a psychiatrist. I was just seeing a therapist. And so when? So I didn't know any of that stuff. Nobody told me not to drink, you know, even though it suppose I should have been able to figure that out for myself. But, you know, nobody told me of yeah, no, makes you feel better. So it's like, well, do that. Yeah, so I didn't stop it, but and so you don't. Do you consider yourself as a regular person? Yeah, I. Could you ever go to AA meetings or anything like that? Do? Have you ever considered yourself like an addict? Yeah, you didn't. I've got to meetings. But yeah, I did. Early before I got diagnosed with bipolar, I tried a bunch of different meetings. I would...

...go to like narking on narcocks, anonymous like I wasn't on narcotics. I'm like, well, the narcotics is all drugs. Maybe it's the same thing. I tried Aa and I'm like all these these people actually drunk, drunks, these like drunks and like I can drink, but I'm like that's the fit either. So it took me a while, but when I got diagnosed with bipolar and went to a meeting of bipolar people, immediately I'm like, Oh, this is this is what I have. Yes, this totally makes sense now, and I just faded from the drinking. He just wasn't really a thing. I earlier. I've had to try to stop and I was successful and trying to stop because life was pretty well balanced and I was raising kids. But after I got divorced I picked it up a little bit and within that first year of being divorces when I both drank, got diagnosed and kind of stopped drinking mostly, although now I'm a big fan of like a good cider. We got some good cider bars in town. They're pretty potent. So you can't really drink more than two and that's it. You know, call it a night. But even that's like what three times, four times a year tops. What about you, Jim? You drink. I drink socially, but since I'm not very social anymore, I have not drank. So so you don't sit around home and drink, you go out. Already. You'll drink when you go out. Oh, rots and would drink at home with friends, with people. So I don't feel like I can't drink alone. Let's just put it that way. If I drink alone, it's probably because I'm really depressed. But I I have had a drink, a solid drink, probably in about a year and a half. Yeah, don't Miss It. No, not really. I mean every once in a while get a craving to like, oh, I want a beer, but it's just a craving and it goes away quicker than the thought. Yeah, and I think I get the same thing and then I when I kind of dive into that thought, it's really I just crave. Then the Stalgia of hanging out with my friends. Yes, that's like. I would really love to just be the old person version of the fourteen year olds haven out, you know, like having a slumber party, playing video games all night. I would just like that as an adult. Yep. But yeah, it doesn't really pertain. It doesn't have to involve drinking, although that's what most adults do nowadays. Have a beer. Hey, dude, come over have a beer. I'm not that guy. I won't go over and have a beer, I'll go over and smoke a joint while you're drinking your beer. Yeah, you know it's all right, and now we can do that. Maybe we should all just move to Canada. Maybe we should. Maybe, you see me. Won't have a choice, escape, we won't have but we won't be able to be a wall up there too. Yeah, right, well, okay, so I don't we won't get to political on this show, but since the three of us are Americans from different part of America, it might be a good chance to us say what we feel about trump's immigration policy. So what I see this. I'm like a whatever, because everyone where I live or like how the fucking idiot? That guy such a fucking idiot. That's never going to last. That guy's going to be out before we know it, all right. But then I realized, when I talk on a mic, that I've got downloads of people in the UK and Ireland and, you know, Thailand, it's Aud Araby, Australia, wherever. They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you people? So let's just say unequivocably we do not think it's appropriate to put babies in cages. Anybody I know would try to let a baby out of a cage if we saw one in a cage, and we don't really care who flies into America. Personally speaking, it doesn't matter to me, you know. I mean no, on a like not fly into America, but, you know, fly in on a plane and getting out the plane in a normal course of things. Yes, thank you for Clar Yeah, come on in, welcome. I mean maybe I've been a California and all my life and we've always had a pretty open border down in the Mexico part of the town or part of the state and it's just something you grow up with. It's like you learn to appreciate that part of culture. So it just trips me out when...

...we're like yeah, well, now we're shutting them off, we're going to build a wall like in Germany used to have, and we're going to put people in cages like we did the Japanese is after World War Two, and we're going to all these every little thing we're doing. So if you hear the show from outside of America, know that. No, okay. Well, here's a good example. So in reality, only twenty percent of the people in America voted for trump. That's eighty percent did not vote for him. That's one out of five. That's like HMM, okay. So say we're going to wipe out all of the Beatles accomplishments because of Yoko? Oh No, see, that's not fair. That's not something you would do. So you folks in the UK, I think you'll understand that comparison, just because Yoko happened doesn't mean the Beatles weren't great. Just because trump happened doesn't mean the whole of America is not still great and we're working on fixing the problem. Agreed. Yet don't put babies and cages. That's Jeez. Agreed. Yeah, even the even the baby cages. Are Mad at the whole situation and, like Adam Mental Health, I'm at epidemic. What's going to happen to these four kids? So when we talk about this all the time, right every time, like there's a school shooting, that's effectively like a PTSD bomb. You like dropping a bomb and infecting all those kids with PTSD. They're going to go off and have jobs and careers and go to school and everything else and they're going to be like little time bombs of PTSD floating around in society. And the same thing with the kids that are being locked up in Texas right now. Oh, trip on this. This is getting far afield. So actually, I won't even go there. Let's get back to nutrition and bipolar disorder. Well, so we have to talk about exercise now, because we talked about yeah, that was the very next thing exactly. So, on top of drinking more water and laying off the drugs as a kid, don't smoke the weeds so much maybe, and drink more water, you guys meditate anything like that. Breathing nearly it's not just I should my clumsy. I try. I try the APPS and the headphone stuff. It's fine. It's better than not, you know. Yeah, I agree. My breathing. Breathing is like key. I always I hold my breath in so much because I get wound up. I'm I get hypomatic. I'm like like feeling a puppy is. I'm got all wound up. So yeah, I'm like, Oh, dude, breathe. Yeah, breathing in. That's very important. Yes, which also leads to the exercise piece. I am living downtown San Francisco. We're having a car is makes as much sense as bringing your car into downtown Disneyland. So we don't need cars here and there's lots of hills, so I walk a lot that most of my exercise is walking and I walk fast because I'm trying to get somewhere. I also ride my bike a lot if I want to get further kind of build up a sweat. So a lot of my exercise cycling, walking. I'm a drummer, so I play the drums. That's exercise when I, you know, play for length of time. And what else am I doing? I put a pull up bar in my doorway so I can do pull ups and I'm thinking of getting a ower because that's kind of my kind of speed of exercise. I like rowing seems neat. What do you guys do? I like I generally just tied to walk during the day somewhere. They moved my office out of downtown, so now I'm just kind of like in the middle of nowhere. So I just have to walk around the parking lot, which isn't very fun, but it's what I do. It's fresh air. Yeah, I'd say walking and doing pushups and whatnot. Anything that's going to, you know, get my heart rate, going to help out with things, get that blood yeah. Yeah, and I think one of the keys is that I'm not totally great at because I walk so much and I cycle a lot. Is actually breaking a sweat, because I don't often break us wet doing those things, because how fast you fucking got to walk to break US West as prefess? So maybe I should take up jogging or something where I...

...where to do break more of a sweat, or join a gym where I can hit the pool get a little more aerobic exercise. That's what I would do if I were to change. I think, well, you can just start fast walking, like wiggle my butt, get that whole fucking he'll, he'll toe pivot down, start carrying your like weights. Oh Yeah, yes, I guess said like a sexy at s aerobic sweat band on my head and some old rebox with the white little British flags on them. Ankle waits. I mean you could hide those really easily. Uh Huh. Just kick and hit and kick and hit. Yeah'd be fun. This neighborhood. Something else. I should start the tandeloing joggy club. It's just a bunch of people running. What are you guys running from? Every the thing is you have to wear your street clothes, you have to jog in your street clothes, and people just think that we're running from crime. Hurry run. Well, how are we going to close this out? We'll see you. Have we hit all the major points that most of our bipolar brothers and sisters would would grasp? I can. You Know Me, I don't like to hit people over the head with too heavy stuff. But there are alternatives. So, aside from the common therapy and pills that the doctor gives you, you can try alternative medicine, experimental hallucinogens. If you're in a state words legal, you could try weed to Tam your mania and then die. Then Diet, and then we don't think. Basically, probiotics and probiotics, cut down the sugar, drink more water, breathe, and then exercise. Get not too heavy of exercise. You don't want to do too much exercise. Well, and this is kind of the thing right it's easy for me to say exciteling towards mannic and, I don't know, really empathetic towards depressed people, because a lot of times they'll a depressed person will listen to a podcast like this and think, well, you guys are fucking crazy. I can't even get out of bed. I can't and move my legs to the floor. I'm beat I'm miserable, I'm exhausted just from depression alone. Yeah, I don't. I can't remember. Do you guys remember, like when you were that way? Did, because most of the Times, I think eventually my curse would break and I would hop on my bicycle, I think, and I lived on a hill and the moment the bike started coasting down the hill, you kind of like, Oh, fucking wake up, let's ride, and then it would break free. But I can't I don't really know if there was a feeling that I got that said, Hey, let's get up and ride a bike. I think I literally had to wait for the chemical fucking synops change to pass. Like, do you recall being super depressed and what got you out of bed to do any kind of exercise? I don't think they'll that when I was depressed, that getting up meant that I was going to go exercise. Although like even laundry, like, I mean honestly, that to a depressed person, doing your laundry, fuck, that's not only exercise, that's a whole huge thing crossed off your list, right. But I'm just I'm trying to give some hope to people that are listening right now there's super, super depressed and just can't even move. Because, yeah, even go open up the window and poke your head outside and listen to the birds and look at the clouds. That to me counts as exercise. If you were prone on your bed for the last, you know, thirty six hours, simply walk into the window will make you feel better. Open it up, try to step outdoors. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, yeah, anything can be a little victory. So, yeah, it sounds harsh, though, because you know, some times when people were tell me just try to go outside, to me it sounded like I was on Mars and they're telling me to leave the lunar module, like if we can go outside and with a die out there. I'm allergic to that atmosphere, let's say. Yeah, I get it. So, yeah, if you're depressed, then you know whatever, do do your best. But exercise does help, just getting the blood flow and I think to the point of sweat, because then you're actually pushing toxins out of your body. That's awesome. Even...

...just going and taking a shower probably is another one that can takes right you're standing up, you're holding up the weight of your entire body for fuck's sake, your head must weigh nine pounds. You're carrying around a nine pound bowling ball on your shoulders. That is exercise, so props to you for getting up and pulling your head off the pillow even that's great. What do you guys got coming up for other episode ideas well? I think we could definitely have another episode where we talk about psych media, since we kind of are changing. We're not changing how our thoughts of psych media is, but I think that we're changing the look of psych media. Yeah, that's a good thing and if anybody's listening, want was thinking about becoming a advocate or a mental health activist and don't know how to start, hang out with us right. I mean, we don't either, but we can help you get as far as we've gotten and then maybe you'll go beyond us and do better than we can. So always join us at bipolar PARTYCOM. That's how becky and Jim and I kind of met and started developing our ideas together, and we try to help and share each other's podcasts through social media. That always helps. It looks like kind of part of a bigger thing, when really the bigger thing is just the website we're putting together called psych dot media and we're building little profiles of all the kind of media creators, producers and whatnot that tell stories in the psychiatry field. Yeah, it's awesome indeed. I'M gonna go rants I'm so I'm gonna about to go do a Jay lily show and it's going to be all about how bipolar people can invent their own pride day event. Nice. Yes, UH, because I've drove so many similarities between gay people and bipolar people over the past weekend with the Pride Festival in San Francisco. Yeah, so I'm just thinking, man, all we all we do is, as bipolar people, a lot of us, is complain about all the stigma. You know, we're on the Internet bitching about the stigma. Meanwhile all we do is talk about like the negative parts of my polar disorder and like, well, Duh, like the gay people weren't out. They're saying we spread AIDS or anything like that. Right that that would not be the way to fucking defeat stigma. They're there. They pointed to science and two facts and things like that. So you can't just go with the public perception. So if the Public Perceives Gay People's spreading AIDS, will they counter it with their facts? If the public sees, you know, bipolar people is committee mass murder, we have to counter that with facts and we don't always like the any movement that destigmatizes itself never focuses on the negative aspects of their tribe. They always focus on the positive and I think that's one ask. The one thing that the mental health tribes don't quite get right is too many of us are spreading the negative stigma while complaining that there's negative stigma. Right. So we're going to go over, go over that a little bit or a lot of bit. All right, all right. Well, I won't say anything about it now so you can have it all for your podcast, but it's very interesting concept. Uh Huh. Yeah, have one. I still have one autism episode put out, so I think that's going to be coming out for me next nice. Did you find a spectrum person to talk to? Yeah, well, I've talked to heather and I actually have two episodes with her out already and this will be the third one. Nice, just because we had so much content, oh my gosh. But yeah, it's great style on cheese and five following joyles. Excuse me,.

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