Emo Dojo™ Presents: John Emotions
Emo Dojo™ Presents: John Emotions

Episode · 3 years ago

Borrowing anti-stigma tactics from the homosexual community; what works?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Since the DSM (mental health diagnoses manual) was first published in 1968 until 1989 it listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. First, it was Sexual Orientation Disorder. Then it became Sexual Orientation Disturbance. Now, it's fully embraced in parades around the world each June. Why can't the Bipolar community engage the same tactics to have their "disorder" embraced in such a joyous way? What strategies and tactics can the Bipolar community borrow from the gay community to reduce our own stigma? Listen as John talks to a gentleman who is both gay and depressed.

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It Onland nowits online aeswith Yall right, so you know I'm based indowntown San Francisco Ousa Right, and you may also know that SanFrancisco has a long, colorful history with homosexual community, and you know that this show is aboutoftentimes mental health related topics. So I'm wondering especially after thebig pride month like all of June, ispridemonth and it culminates in huge festival here, like a million pluspeople in downtown San Francisco, all kinds of rainbow flags and glitter andeveryone's just being their best gayness right. Everyone brings it be asgay as you can be. I'm thinking that's interesting becausenot long ago, when the diagnostic manual from mental disorders came outin one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight homosexuality was a mentaldisorder and not until Ne Thousand Nine hundredand eighty nine did they have it removed out of that book. Until ben itwent from a disorder to a disturbance, something they calle Ha MentalDisturbance, sexual orientation disturbance. Soanyway, my point being is: If one sidelines community that have beenstigmatized and labelled can shake their stigma. Are there any tools in that communitythat the mental health community can use to reduce stigma amongst people whosuffer from mental disorders? So I found a guy in my building he's areally nice guy named mark, who agreed to come on the podcast and mark'sreally cool in general, but he's also a greatcharacter to talk to these issues because he suffers from severe depression,sometimes he's clinically depressed and he's also homosexual. So we have aninteresting conversation and I brought up some of my more ridiculous points toget his thoughts on them and we kind of we worked out a few things on how themental health community can better further their cause, and we also foundsome key stumbling points that I don't think we will ever be able to mitigateso listening as we walk through the Ruckus of the parade and e H. I think I got it tuned outjust right. You might hear the Ruckes in the background, but hopefully youcan hear our conversation so we'll just cut to it here is me talking to markabout how the mental health community might be able to use the tools of thehomosexual community to reduce stigma. Join the party at bipolar, Partycom. Well, Hey, Oh sa! Here's! Here's why wetalked in the lobby right, so I asked you to be on the podcast and and marklives in my building with me and shares his perspective on lots of interestingthings. So I feel comfortable sharing this idea with him to get his feedbackokay. So after the pride weekend it was amazingright, just shit down of people all over town celebrating what used to beis recently one housand, nine hundred and eighty nine, a mental disturbancenow hear me out so in oe thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, the diagnosticmanual that lists things like bipolar and Scizephrania. Datida also listedhomosexuality as a disorder and like that's fascinating and I on't a isorder. Don't don't know, I don't think most people thatr are around today orwoke or whatever...

...realize that as recen S, one thousandnine hundred and eighty nine, it was still and it got listed down from adisorder to a disturbance, and now it's been taken out pretty much completelyof all the mental health manuals. It's great. So I guess my point being is:How do we determine what's behavior oriented like say a bipolar persontalking too much of spending all the money in their bank account or beingdepressed and staying in bed all day or whatever? How do we get those peopledstigmatized to the point where we could have a big parade? Full of youknow Mentally Il people. Well, is thereeything? Is that a fair comparison and Ou ohers? How you do it? Here's theanswer to how you do it? Okay, I don't know whether it's compares Tor,not you have to. They have to be able to dress normal, have normal jobs. Looklike theyre totally represent whatever age group they need to be. They have tolook successful. They have to probably still be white M, want want before anyone consider they might be narral, but okay otherhard one at no. That's I've come across the tooand, I think kind of similarlyso to eliminate stigma. You have to be all of the things, a quote: Unquotenormal person is we used to think and then some and then over. We used tothink that we used to think that we needed to. We need the appearance ofpeople. You know th that looks entirely normal. The list stick lesbians, theMarlborough Man that that would be helpful, but in fact it didn't make anydifference. It did make any difference Wel, because that's what what was beingthe people were sneaking around BABC news was in our parks, photographingmen in the parks- and you know having sex in the bushes and that's, and that was the image thatjust kept going around and I think after well. I think I told you to etherday it what changed thi this stigma, what changed w a was our value that we were something that was worth alot of money in the we had money to spend. We were silmerswow, that's a great point, okay. So, aside from the things like the shockingturn of events, Tat Stone Wall that prompted like a national outcry,marches in Chicago La San Francisco, okay, that that hasn't really happenedin the mental health field mean there's no shocking one instance. Wherever onesays, oh, my Gosh, how dare we depress people that way and that's not likelyto happen yeah, but you brought up a great point in that. Historically inAmerica, anyway, all the money comes from the men earning the income in thehomosexual community. In that case, if you consider only the men part yeahyou've got two men, ostensibly white males who are at the highest earning capacity,so you're right. There was a commercial aspect to being able to remove thestigma and we, like Barry Diller. We had really big people, David Geffin th.Those were the big people who were too rich to give a shit, and you knowabout what anybody thought, but we've never had. SM We've never had a a male movie star of like a status ofTom cruize ever come out and right even remember, like rock Hudson, didpostumously kind of, and it became a big thing. We Yeah we protected rockHusin, he would come to the Castro and we would see him and we didn't have nokidding it, but really t was you've seen you've seen I mean you have astoried history mark so you've seen like Rog Hudson in the Castrian, Ohyeah, Oh yeah, there was like there was less of those people. We tried to be cool about it, justbecause, of course, you know. Of course it was an open secret. Well then,that's the thing to in a lot of cultures is how cool can you be aboutthings like in Hollywood? It's like! Oh, I don't notice any stars in thecastrodes, like I don't know any gay people, it's the the contest whenyou're in that t's, like how cool can you be not to notice it yeah but yeah,it's kind like a New York City. When you know when you see an when you seeit celebrity n New York City, you just...

...you know you pretend you're not aboutto pass out right. Rightn, you see Waran baty with Diane Keaton, Walk Pastyou you just you know. I can even tell you that Maria Schriver has fat. Ankles,wow Wa, know that, because I was I Hanalulu and her and they weren't, hewasn't the governor and they were young and dating, and I just tought, Oh, myGod, Poor Maria. They were going on the way to movies. I almost almost made abody's, shaming joke in that like is that, where all her fat went, theankles she's very thin. I don't mean ot Thi's a terrible thing to say, and Idon't ink us like no, this Isbo oery thing I could notice. It is afascinating observation for someone that's so thin to have larger ankles. Iguess interesting that yeah. That is a thing to like you,just just be cool when I was in Los Angeles recently for a few years. Yes,we see stars all the time and after a while people say, do you see stars, I'mlike yeah actually do, but I forgot which ones do you want me to tell youabout? Have you seen this person like actually yeah? I did see that you justafter a while. It's like not a thing. The only time I was snoopy Ar Haweshould't talk about this, I remember being on an airplane coming back fromLondon and grant tanker was sitting next to me.I'd use my Frenken flier miles and I wait grant tinker was like head ofsomething at Anntand, Mary, thanamorrs husbeen. You know that MTM, oh, he wasthe mtm yeah and okay ee. They already divorced. No, he was the t, an MTM yeah,and I only knew who he was. I kind of thought it was because they called youFY your first name. You know you may call you, Mr Tanker M R Parsley. Iwasn't Mr Tinker and he got up to go to the bathroom and night. I took my footand kind of rolled over what I thought was some screen treatment, or justSocranyway, so wayou Tai about stereotype or right right, okay, so sagits, okay, so we the capitalism piece, the commercialaspect tapping into your, let's call wit, the tribes money pot yeah. We had.We had money to spend that gay man had money to spand. I think that's acritical point, because when I m, when I talk to the mental health community,people with mental illnesses have the opposite of that. They don't have moneyto spend. In other words, this really severe mental illnesses, tothisdisabling ones where Yep can't work or it's very hard. So that's a great pointlike homosexuality does not disable you in that way at all right that there's stigma involved forsure, and it's and it's harsh, you never know how being gay say Wat. Soyou never will ever really know how it affects how you're treated. I willnever know to tbe extent right to the extent that it did a that there that,as been spesci against me, I could hear when I was younger people would referto me US come I he for San Francisco. If I wouldgo to meetings in southern California, that was the codeworker telling like alawyer or amen it us or something that mark from San Francisco winkwing wow noyeah, and I would always Thinkin, I'm gonnafucking get you later for that. You know, but yeah yeah, but you're right.How would you know like you just you would there's no way to know becausepeople are openly mean now they're, like especially with tromp. IsPresident they're becoming more openly racist and hostile to outsiders. Theyhaven't turned that hatred toward gay people yet, but just a matter of timeand then they'll turn it to the mentally ill. So that's kind of why Ibring these up because homosexuality mental illness is not to complate thetwo that saying I'm not trying to bring homosexual aloty back to a disorder byany means for sure what I'm trying to do is give hope to people who havemental illnesses and let them know that sometimes there's a pathway to get thatstigma eliminated altogether right, I think, with mental illness. I think Ithink, and even from my experience here with living with people who haveproblems, you know and serious...

...disorders like Gitziforana, I don'teven know all the classifications. Sometimes I'm decided trying to decide.He said a paraoid CITOPHRANIC person, I'm kind of learning how to live withthemand, to have some kind of conversation and not be mean. I meanyou see it here. A lot like people are sometimes really mean and to someonethat they Hav it's just their disorder. You know but yeah it's hard. I because every people,when you have disorders, you tend to lose empathy once in a while. You canbe empathetic towards others with disorders, an in fact often you're moreempathetic, because you understand but the moment that PTSD kicks in orEurmania kicks in or just general anger, then yeah you're going to explode onsomebody. You don't really know, and that's that looks for a really volatileenvironment, and I wouldn't imagine that would be that way in a house fullof gay folks. You know there might be a different type of drawmiting of why webe fighting over. You know where's my shirt. You know O way. Why did you know?Why is that person in your bedroom? No, we wouldn't be just arbitrarily angryspontaneously. I mean Marymy, my friend on the second floor. She has extremeinsidity, sort of and she'll repeat what she says, but and so a coupletimes. I've been really ucset with her and I don't know how to deal with withit. You know I was like Mary, please just let me set thes spox of cookiesdown and you know she won't get out of my way and its so irritating, and then I'm saying now you know so then we just two normal people thatare irritated next day. I see her and I say you know I apologize and said No. Iwas in the waywe're just two normal people, but I also know she can't comein the front door. I've learned this without going to a ritual. So now, if Isee her coming, I don't give her any anxiety, because I know that and I justlet her upen the door youaccept hold it for her righ, an she's got a bunch ofstuff. You know six person, she otand other people. That are just mean to her.You just mean to her about her screaming and stuff, and even we were at a meeting where she wasrepeating stuff and names, and me she wasn't supposed to. I knew she couldn'thelp herself from that, but, and anybody with a heart could clearly seein that type of situation, that Oh that's a person that has an issue whatand we're not doctors. We can't diagnose it right now. We simply justunderstand that that person has an issue treat that with kindness, don'tcall the police these type of things. You Know Che she's gotten he policecalled on her and reach just shopping in a retail store. Well and here'sanother thing: Dude people used to call the police on gay people. You know whatI mean so as we go through all these. The comparisons I've been thinkingabout since walking through the pride parade area, I'm startng to think wow,yeah it's and they all pop up. I was certain that you know the reasonI it was not invested in the marriage stuff is. My experience has been thatevery time there's a moove for it because remember the gay movement was apolitical movement until it came along in the gay movement ceased to be apolitical moment when ae came along it. Just everything that was going forardjust was put on hold for a long time and that's prechase movement. But when themarriage came, I knew that there was. I didn't even care anymore because they didn't know whether they wouldreturn it to the to the courts or Stateriho the statesora se. So I was totally shocked. As I told you like I'm willing to marry formoney now and Mary Fort. You guys Ho wants to immigrate. Anybody needs somedo be married. We can work out a deal, got a nice basement, woi ijen for awhile yeah, it's cool, because iwould be really good at that, because Iobserve thing so when they immigration people, ask you what color socks youwear. I wear I'll know right so mark is the sanctuary city mark thats ight he's got his own sancuary city, a cityof Markville, I mean so I don't even think about it, but...

Tho don't what we're talking about join the party at Bi Polar Partycom. Ithink I could never talk to a person here who had like really bad ocd orsomething and then one day out front. There was a man named Richard who usedto live here and when I came here he was a neighbor and I thought he wascompletely normal and I kindo would watch him and stuff and then somethingchanged, which probably meant he went off his medication onto illegalmedication, which is very, very common soit's, very common in Mendal illnessand an and even in just regular illness yeah. Just andeven here for me, like yeah the few times that I've gone down that roadit's JAS tha. I totally now understand the. It is the only thing that bringsyou some kind of relief from just all of it. You can just kind of blowyourself away for a tiny bit, and- and so that's why you see a lot of peoplewith middle and illness stopp their medications and go crazy. Wait. Can wetalk about that yeah? So, when O, I une really understand it. Yeah when youwent ou say, went down that road, so we talking mental illness, drug addictionand or both well, I'm here I'm here for really serious depression. I spent something happene to me in two thousandand six that took me so out of my life. I waswith the same person for thirty five years, believe thit or not big loss.Yet thirty, five years Seden loss and I who you're talking to now is halfpart of. I I always say I survived. It didn't arrive both thesame time. so that's H, t happened to me: It wasn't drugs. It was just the shock of what happened to losemy partner and find that out on in a answering machine. It's like you. Youhave no idea what that feels like. So I put a long time you know I was on therun for few years, just moving, not knowing I you know I, it was just a really rough time. I feellike you were chasing something or running for I feelt like because no oneknow what to do with it. No one knowing not to do with me likesuddenly mark is thust crazy and the everyone was kind of dependent uponme. You know, and I'm just like I was on the run. I ended up e ended up staying with my mother witha blanket over my head in her basement for almost two yearsand Trak, it's tying to come back here and yeah I mean I didn't think I was goingto make it for the longest time when I had a psychiatrist to it say we on thisstory again, so all of the stuff it just like. So when I ended up here, I ended uphere through you know, just all these city programs of endedup on the street. You know and was that from depression directlyor do you think depression plus drugs? No, I was all from it was all from. It was fsome depression. I don't Ev, Idon't even know I mean I remember the doctor in Colorado said to me: Let's prertend, we're in New York City,you know and I'm a fancy shrink an insant. So I would be saying things tolike this to you. Would you consider electric shock right?You know, would you consider you know this or that I'm trying to jump startyou back into some, because I'm really concerned that you're going to you knowjust fade out, and I said no electric shock. No, you know I just wasresistant to any treatment because F I...

I couldn't. Even I don't know how mane decisions ar Iidid. Some of them are wrong Si. What do you think what's Ha wrongdecision? What do you have like regrets? Do you really think it was a wrongdecision or just something that you wishe would? But we have what I regretis when Tim died. I just let everybody run my life and there werecircumstances which I just I just totally got pushed aroundand a is out of my mind and set of my mind.You know I ended up in every. I have every midtle hospital in San Francisco Yeah andthose kind of things its just like. I never saw such cruelty as I did inmhost places I'll never go back. There do Youo, it's not a place for help,it's no place o. So you know when I see all this stuff, the depression andstuff, it's really stigmatized o getting backto the stigein. I appreciate you sharing that ie kind of fell off thedeep end. When my wife left me- and I went into that fucked up just I'm lostI'm depressed a'm falling like constant fault like falling. How do I fall whileI'm lying in bed in the dark b? T it just? It was amazing in hindsightamazing, in a bad way, so yeah and itwas shocking, and it did last for acouple of years. MOSTN yeah, like wow, but t reminds me to also in the mentalhealth arena say on twitter, facebook and whatnot. A lot of people are both out of oneside of their head. They're complaining about the ailments. How bad I feel, howShity I feel that it on the other half they're, saying: Oh, why is everybodyalways tigmatizing us? Why are they stagmatizing us and to me? I think thisis a is a conundrulm because effectively they are spreading thestigma on one hand and complaining about the stigma. On the other hand,for example, if in the gay community all you ran around was touting aidstatistics, people probably wouldn't embrace homosexuality right, so whatthey did instead was they show facts. They said here's how ags is spread, andyou know basically try to defuse the stigma with facts in the case of masskillers. They try to point to the mentally ill, but in fact it's usuallyangry white, guys that are not mentally ill or at least not diagnosed, sopointing to the facts always helps but yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, the first thing we were sayingthat is like what happened in the age crisis. Is Youknow the first thing I thought Aowell whenyou said that was all that stuff, that surface of people intentionallyinfecting themselves, SUF stuff? That would. I don't think that a lot ofAmerican knew some of that stuff that was going on because it was something Ithought this is really bad, just not image wise. This is really hard tothink about on any level that people wunt justwanted to get the AIDS virus, so they would get have it and know theywouldn't have to worry the rest of their lifes that they might get itthey'd have it and it's called I don't ewant like chicken box in a way yeah Imean they call it breeding, which is, is jus horrible, interesting. I'venever heard that Te. I mean you like to say that work, because it's like it'sso integrated now into that time that they had words for it. They just wantedto they wanted to get ill so that theywould be free of it yeah. No, I mean I there's some. Some logic in that Iguess, but back to the other point that wasn't the advertised thing, you knowthat's not what they were advertising to destigmatize homosexuality. So inthe same sense I don't understand people who are complaining about theirmental illnesses on one hand and then...

...say: Why are you stigmatizing me, I'mhorrible, I'm depressed, I feel like Shit. Why are you stigmatizing and justgoing back and forth? Well, I can think of I don't know this probably won'tmake sense to anybody, but I can think of even someone. I know here like if I have no idea why my phone is nowannouncing this. I turne something on like like when you I know I've knownbefore, like if you know someone who's hype, ochonderact or who o you know,has some issues or things they have an undiagnosed illness like. I know someone here, who's likethat and like if you have an undiagnosed illness fortwenty two years, you have a diagnosis and that diagnosis is not medical. It'sit's psychological, behavioral, yeah! Yes, and you know, if you're, trying to sell that. Youknow if you're trying to sell your situation, you know as if no one's going to buy it,no one's going to believe this person ever that she hasn't no diagnosis and how awfulher life is because she has one hour a day. She has no energy, and I'm notsaying I'm just saying it's just weird to me because you do have a diagnosis.You know you have some problem and you could have gotten disability, you knowand not live so horribly, but you wouldn't face that. You know that was true, ISEE yeah. No,that makes sense well people that it gets back to okay, like, for example,when I got really poor in San Francisco many years back, I was fuckingstruggling couldn't eat. I was shop, liftind cheese, you know just tofucking survive wow. I went to the food stamp place, whatever it's called thesedays, get my loeebt card and, and I was o the edge dude I was on theedge I stood in line had nothing to do that day. I was like out of work out ofmoney and got up to the lady and filled out the paper work. She goes. Oh okay,you're going to get wo and seventy five and I almost almost started crying I'mlike Hoth, I lik O. like a lot of money. You mean Y alking Loll of money. I'mlike! Oh, that's, amazing and I'm like what's that paper for he goes Oh that'snext month and like twoand, seventy five every month she goes yeah and thenI literally did start to kind of cry a little bit and like sa wiping my tearsand like she goes she's, so she was trying to bekind. She says: Oh, it's, okay, you didn't know and then without missing abeat, but you didn't ask so like well yeah. It's true. I didn't ask. So allthe suffering people go through a lot of times it because they didn't ask theright questions. So a lot of suffering I found is people especially thementally ill. Like look at the president, he suffers from what I'vefound be called ANOSONOSIA, which is a mental disease which means lack ofinsight. It means you lacke the inte ability to even know that you have amental disease, so therefore you never go get it treated because you don'tthink you have one okay and since you never get it treated you're going to bea fucking mental patient for evermore, because you just haven't been diagnosedbecause you refuse the diagnosis, because, just because you refuse adiagnosis and refuse to see a doctor doesn't mean you're mentally fit foranything, it's kind of the same way with registering the gun we make.People who buy guns go register them, but we have people with brains thatnever ever have mental health checks is true and we let them run the countryand let met me think you know. Am I doctor now tell she she has to remindme like I'm so once in a while. She has to remind me that I'm depressed, because I think that Ithink it's just me ihave lot. I have forgotten that I'm in treatment fordepression well, th, there's a distinction there at the appe Yo shouldlike. So you might not be depressed like actively sad right now, but youclinically have depress yes, you know what I mean yeah and B t but- and I Iinl actually know it, but on a day to...

...day function, I'm not going aroundthinking, I'm depressed or using it as an excuse right for why I can't doanythings Anand, like I'm always being told I'm too isolative. I should getout of my room and then sometimes I think. Well, that's the only place. Ifeel safe yeah and I see e that's why we talk, because I see you out in thelobby a lot, so I'm doing your part for sure try to interact in an appropriateway, you're not on the street with those well some top. Well, I'm on thestreet, because that this intially, like it's our frontyard, really yeah. I have a friend out there in vet. I'm really I'm reallyworried he's, maybe a died. Last night I have a friend who was out there whohas drug issues and MIL health issue. Why do you think Yit might have diedlast night because I saw him out someout therelast night he had an infection in his arm. I never seen it was oozing and Isaid Brad you have to go to the hospital you have to go to the hospital.I am going to call an ambulance. You have got to go to the hospital and he's trying to keep he's a smartperson. This is a person who saved my life here. This is a stranger wholiterally saved my life here. I kind of you know. Sometimes I wish ithadn't happened but- and he didn't know me and he saved my life literally sahe's out there on the street. He got avicted. He could get septic with thatthing he didn't go last night. You knowthat's a as Oill di and it's like what can I do for Hirman but anyway, whatwas my point? Damn it see? That's okay, it's fun, because people listening tothe podcast will hear it and, like Oh yeah, that ase a neat story, it'sreally hard ron where those meetings people are talking, people outto frontbecause it's like. I just can't talk about those people, because I don'tknow that. Actually that was my point. You don't socially isolate any morethan most people, and the interesting point is that when you do, those arethe kind of folks that you make friends with and and interact with. So I thinkthat's powerful. A lot of people sit ing there. CPEOPLE Sittin there causyolittle cubicles at their office and go to their because your little home inthe suburbs, in the middle of America and they're like Oh, I'm, social, noyou're, not the you're sitting in a Cubacle you're sitting in your car andyou're sitting in your house. So mark, like you just said, you think, you'resocially isolating yourself, you're, actually doing a good job, we're in themiddle of a fucking, crazy, ass city, dude right here in this particularneighborhood, no nt, just poking your finger out to test the wind issomething else here. I know, but I'm also I'm also. I don't know if I'vealways been this way, but IAM pathologically pathlogically over empathetic, I meanit's just like I will I mean I just it's. Maybe this is bus in the Ovit Imean you know you have to be kind of tough here and I will I will put someif someone needs a dollar and it's my wallet, you know fine, but I mean I can't give Brad mylast twenty dollar, so he can not be sick. You know it's just like well. BenYoul be horrible, it's a horrible! You know I'm on I'm not on on drugs, butwell. Here's my theor in not my theory, but the thing I've adopted since I readit a while back is that we become the average of the five people that we arearound the most. So like Whoa, so therefore yeah don'tgive you money to people because of then you'll be poor, just lit them. SoI mean I could have given Brad Twenty dollars. I knew yesterday they wasprobably would be for heroin, but I was tryingto get into go to the hospital right, and so I went to my atm to see what therewas left and I got a twindollar bill and I gave him five and I just thoughtlast night then, when I went t out to see my thought, I've been thinking thatevery day now, like anthe next word, I've Goen hur is hit.He died, I'm expecting Brad to die. He's thirty, seven years old, justRunda I' a than he's Goinna die, because when he got out on the street-and it was his own fault here I mean he didn't pay his rent. And...

...it's just it's a really weird expensiveabout the mental. You know. Yes, there sental health out there, I'm mintalhealth in here. The only difference is you just haven't broke yet because thisis, I tell people that I know it's like a mental hospital, but no doctors workhere, yeah UMP, all the people here, good luck and then, if you break theneventually the the property management system, Wi'll just say: Oh Yeu didn'tpay rinitary like cold hard property management. There's no social serviceinvolved to help you. That is crazy. So getting back to h thecomparative stigma thing real, quick before we wrap it up. If you could know, is a great peoplelove this, because it's way better than just hearing me talk to myself, whichis what most of my podcast listeners. Maybe you can edit it, because if Isound really dumb nope an your voice sounds great too, for pidcast. Have youever watched the documentary? Do I sound gay if you'Vre Seen Thim? Yes, Oh,I can't believe you, oh I've, a lot to say about as that amazing yeah, becauseI'm one of those people, I I'm one of those people who tried to change myvoice to not sound gater, to say Kay di, not sound, Gay wow, you've seen thatI'll watch. Every documentary cand get my hands on, especially that one,because I've been fascinated and like where's gayland. Where do you adoptthat accent and I'm into just anthropology and human behavior you? Soyou heard bat you heard Thatt's about a tribe, it's the jobs, that's thelanguage of the tribe, well yeah, but a lot of people. Don't I don't know why Ihate those people that you know that you ju, don't t you know most of people,don't sound gay, but I sound gay and I have my own theories and I have Iunderstand their theries and I also listen to a fresh air about linguisticsin the debate on you know, vocal fry and Youcann. I used to try to not sound gay on my own. I never wouldhave well I might have at I was. I would have been tooembarrassed to go to voice coach or whatever. It is right.Try to do that, but I tried on my own and then I just I gave up like hetded in the endI thought what he tried to do. I tried to do onmy own and just fuck it I mean I can't change my voice. My theory is, and theyhad it in the documentary there was, but I fell felt like it's just a crossbetween the masculine and the feminine, and I think they were talking aboutthat weren't. They inputting the docrumenttreat that it's just my voice and sometimespeople think I'm from the south. I don't feel like I sound like a woman.No, and there are southern gays right and yeah. If you hear a gay guy fromthe south, it's like, Oh, no, that's, gay and south and like like you, soundlike you're from San Francisco. It's definitely a western. You know accent,but the first time you heard my voice in you didn't. You know right away. Ifthere was any question it statsom. You know in San Francisco-and you know, like I just stope, judging because right like look at me,I'm I purposefully don't exude any which direction on purpose yeah anSomeso and I don't have an accent well. This is why I brought it up becausepeople from other countries, like Russia, the UK, the Ukraine and placeslike that theyy swear, I'm one of them and I have an acting coach in fivetimes now. Twie three times in La and twice appeer, my lift or uber driverhave said Dod. What's your accents, I know that Alsit, you that's a really good Americanaccent and I'm like now. Dude, that's that's my AC. This is how I talk. No!No. Where are you from okay and I'm like or you'r doing a really goodAmerican accent you' like what the yeah? You have a good American accent, that'strue, but I don't I'm not sure what that is lik to well. You know, you knowwhen you, when you go to Europe and you hear a British, you know you think,that's a British accent. We forget, we have an accent right right and we have.We have we yeah yeah, especially California, whe're the deep of Americayeah. I don't know wh t what do they thinking I'm in Europe? What do theyhad on them? What do they think when they hear me talk? What's weird to me, as you see D D, Youkind of have a southern at twin Tou. Were you from the south at all, or youwere from the East Coast. I thought I'm...

...t from a little town in a high desert.So you know this accident has is not okay, so that's not south. That's moregay than south totally Git holy get, and you know what I can do that I cando all the the other slang like you know, but I girlfriend and all thatstuff, but al right, but you're like a wise. I Have Oo, have enough burdenyeah an a burden just to have credibility and have this this thisvoice, that's what's so hard for me. Is it's a trip getting older to like, as Iget older, I find I have to drop some of the skateboarder slang. The punkrocks liy yeah the street, but it's hard, like I say Hella fucking Shit.All that I talk like that. All the time still and I can adopt that around here,I can start you know I can kind of you know- adopt some of thes slang from allt that I hear here. If you could eliminate stigma from one or the other,if you could only pick and Geni said, I will wipe away stigma fromhomosexuality or depression, which would you pick atthis point my life. I would probablysay: Depression an those kind of mentalillnesses that people have some control over. That would be nice. I feel, like I'm been lucky enough, so give somepeople like, because you know just give some skizophrinic people abreak, just go along with it. You know, or just just work with what you have towork with. You know, that's what I do just you can you can deal with theperson O schisophrenic if they're you know, and not, Sam Menin and cruel or act on do meanthings on their behand yeah. You know there's just too much. You know it'sAentoyo. I wonder thin, maybe they're speaking the language of the architectto us of the Grand Arcs. What do you call it God or the game programorwhatever? Sometimes when I hear a schizophrnic say some weird shit like purple, basketball, Yoyo and I'm likeWel? Well, I better write that down I'm pulling out my phone, like I betterfucking, Google, this sequence of words, thinking that, maybe that schizophrenicperson is a rip in the Matrix and is telling me something I need to do so. Ithink if you ignore schizophrenic people on the streets, you do so atyour own peril. They are sending you a message: Yeah, that's a good! That's agood way of putting well. So it's one way to think about when you're tryingto be kind to somebody just make it a game just be kind and remember it'stheir Ou kN w young said bouts Kitopforani of it that I, that is theworld there in and they'resthey're shifting that world all the time. Andif you listen to them it's not, they haven't been influencedby what they've seen or heard they're processing that stuff some way. That'scompletely differently right, whole different perspective. I have somegthat I lost it. That's fascinated hat that you would eliminate th thedepression stigma over the homosexual stigma, but is maybe that's because thehomosexwal stigmas largely been reduced in the past generation. Well, I'll tellyou this, even though I've never been hit physically until I came to theCadillac or yeah because of e I've never been a advance on me until I camehere which was by accident, but I've seen more mistreatment here at thecatallap of Middle Health. People like people management, everybody by theindustry. That's here ohelp us, and so I guess that's why I'm! I noticed it more. I notice that I'm aminority here which is really interesting when u? What kind ofminority? Well I'm within the Calecan with the community, I'm white andthere's a larger Latino population. Here yeah, I don't know about blackpopulation, but I'm part of it. You know, I'm not. It's kind, O more isolatedhere, it's wired being part of a minority population when we're still we've had a lifetime of entitlementyeah. You know what I mean is that weird? I find that weird too, becausewe're definitely there are far fewer white people in here, but we carry theburden of like oh well. You had you had...

...chance all your life, buddy boy yeah. Iknow an I never feel like. I was I'm. I was even though I was the gay whitemale I never felt like I was. I wasn't forwarded all those priilegesnow and Wen back when you're kid, you don't underst, you don't realize whatwhite privilege is you don't real because you live in a white world, soyour privilege is relative to other white people, so when you're anotherprovilege? Yes, so when you're a kid and you're in like third grade andyou're, just comparing yourself to other rich white, kids and you're, thepoor white kid, you don't it's hard to comprehend what it you know. Tweee bovsis something I had to clean, yeah right and that you know my sister didn'tfucking government cheese. I know I wa he no government cheese, but I had toclean that fucking pilt filter. You know I didn't have any crank to do likethey do now that just backwashes it so yeah yeah there was. There was a burden with all theprivilege yeah. Well, when you' working for theprivilege, people yeah, I don't want to conpolute the word privilege in thatsense, its is kind of weird because we do have white privilege and yeah, but it just sucks that sometimesI feel guilty that it Wastit, but I'm then like how do I better usemy white privilege to help everybody instead of just me? Oh, I just want tohelp me now. I don't you know just trying to survive just get through thisstage. I just want to sell my aability. I want to see how bad that is. I wantto sell my Abillagy to marry somebody. I don't care about it. Maryvs at all goto a state where they don't allow it and I'll just say: Hey I'll, give youmy California game, marriage ticket I' woint to put a ads in certain countries.That's I'll do yeah! You know and advertise for a MA somebody in anotherculture who wants to come here and I'll marry them. That's interesting thing,AES. Another thing I found about mental illness and homosexuality is that someparts of the world, neither one is even recognized as a thing. No I mean I mean the behavior occurs,hut societies and parts of the world. Just don't acknowledge them. As thething when you first came here, you said you ere kind of very vocal aboutyou're, very vocal about being having depression, yeah and I'm siuht this'skind of amazing. You know this dude's come to be our director and he was kindof like really out and I thought wow. You know you weren't bothered at all byit e some functioning right. I got the job they hired me. I mean yeah now, butIbel you were looking like Fir T. No. I was kind of looking around I'm thinking,Abou Woat d. You do the city services, I was thinking. You know, I know a goodone. It's you know four hundred dollars an hour. I mean you know. I thought Iwas already looking for. I go to e roup, actually at snt Francis,it's really close. It's pretty cool t depressing group twice a week. I don'tgo twice a week because a lot of times, I'm fine gren being around tepresspeople, fucking depresses a shit out of me when I'm feeling fine and I'm everydepressed person, I'm sure would feel the same way but yeah if you're feelingfine. The last thing you want to be around is depressed people when you'rdepressed the best place to go is to depression meeting. I don't see,there's o many depe. I don't think there's many depressed people here well,Wimean with depression are actively depressed like there's. Probably quitea few people t depression, but I've just. I think a lot of people have PTSDCINSFRENNI by polar disorder so because the pression won't manifest wellbe hardfor you to deal with in this situation is a tenant with it. Maybe I don't know,isolation will kill you still. I mean either way because we all live inlittle boxes a so if you're slightly depressed the isolation will just putyou in deeper and a lot of people here to porard before the Internet or TV, sothey literally sit in a box all day and stare at the wall, its twisted, and wegot to fix that and way cool man. I appreciate you coming on: Let's, let'stalk about other weird stuff in the future: Yeah, okay, I'll have hasegment called ask mark. I Know Nis ax.

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