Live from Emo Dojo
Live from Emo Dojo

Episode · 3 years ago

Borrowing anti-stigma tactics from the homosexual community; what works?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Since the DSM (mental health diagnoses manual) was first published in 1968 until 1989 it listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. First, it was Sexual Orientation Disorder. Then it became Sexual Orientation Disturbance. Now, it's fully embraced in parades around the world each June. Why can't the Bipolar community engage the same tactics to have their "disorder" embraced in such a joyous way? What strategies and tactics can the Bipolar community borrow from the gay community to reduce our own stigma? Listen as John talks to a gentleman who is both gay and depressed.

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It's only now it's online Bible.This stylecom emotions with Bible style. All right, so you know I'm basedin downtown San Francisco, USA, right, and you may also know that SanFrancisco has a long, colorful history with homosexual community and you know thatthis show is about oftentimes mental health related topics. So I'm wondering, especiallyafter the big pride month, like all of June is pride month and itculminates in huge festival here, like a million plus people in downtown San Francisco, all kinds of rainbow flags and glitter and everyone's just being their best gaynessright. Everyone brings it, be as gay as you can be. I'mthinking that's interesting and because not long ago, when the diagnostic manual from mental disorderscame out in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, homosexuality was amental disorder and not until one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine did they haveit removed out of that book. Until then it went from a disorder toa disturbance, something they called a mental disturbance, sexual orientation disturbance. Soanyway, my point being is, if one sidelines community that had been stigmatizedand labeled can shake their stigma? Are there any tools in that community thatthe mental health community can use to reduce stigma amongst people who suffer from mentaldisorders? So I found a guy in my building. He's a really niceguy named mark, who agreed to come on the podcast and marks really coolin general, but he's also a great character to talk to these issues becausehe suffers from severe depression, sometimes he's clinically depressed, and he's also homosexual. So we have an interesting conversation and I brought up some of my moreridiculous points to get his thoughts on them and we kind of we worked outa few things on how the mental health community can better further their cause andwe also found some key stumbling points that I don't think we will ever beable to mitigate. So listen in as we walk through the Ruckus of theparade, and I think I got it tuned out just right. You mighthear the Ruckus in the background, but hopefully you can hear our conversation.So we'll just cut to it. Here is me talking to mark a abouthow the mental health community might be able to use the tools of the homosexualcommunity to reduce stigma. Join the party at Bipolar Partycom well, Hey,oh, so here's here's why we talked in the lobby, right. SoI asked you to be on the PODCAST. And and Mark Lives in my buildingwith me and he shares this perspective on lots of interesting things, soI feel comfortable sharing this idea with him to get his feedback. Okay,so after the pride weekend it was amazing, right, just shit ton of peopleall over town celebrating what used to be, as recently is one thousandnine hundred and eighty nine, a mental disturbance. Now, hear me out. So in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, the diagnostic manual thatlists things like bipolar and schizophrenia, Dottada, also listed homosexuality as a disorder andlike. That's fascinating and I don't know it. I don't think disorder. I don't want to know. I don't think most people that are aroundtoday, or woke or whatever, realize...

...that as recent is, in onethousand nine hundred and eighty nine, it was still and it got listed downfrom a disorder to a disturbance and now it's been taken out pretty much completelyof all the mental health manuals. It's great. So I guess my pointbeing is, how do we determine what's behavior oriented, like, say,a bipolar person talking too much or spending all the money in their bank accountor being depressed and staying in bed all day or whatever? How do weget those people destigmatized to the point where we could have a big parade fullof, you know, mentally ill people? Well, is that anything? Isthat a fair comparison and all, there's anothers how you do it?Here's the answer to how you do it. Okay, I don't know whether it'scomparison or not. You you have to they have to be able todress normal, have normal jobs, look like they're totally represent whatever age groupthey need to be. They have to look successful. They have to probablystill be white, want wall before anyone consider they might be neural. Butokay, the hard one said. No, that's I've come across this too,and I think kind of similarly. So to eliminate stigma you have tobe all of the things a quote unquote normal person is. We used tothink that, and then some and then over. We used to think that. We used to think that we needed to. We need the appearance ofpeople, you know, the that looks entirely normal, the lipstick lesbians,the Marlboro Man, that that would be helpful. But in fact it didn'tmake any difference. It did make any difference. Well, because that's whatwhat was being of. The people were sneaking around. ABC News was inour parks photographing men in the parks and, you know, having sex in thebushes, and that's and that was the image. It just get goingaround and I think after well, I think I told you to see otherday. It's what change this stigma. What changed was our value are thatwe were something that was worth a lot of money in we had money tospend, we were consumers. Wow, that's a great point. Okay,so, aside from the things like the shocking turn of events at Stone Wallthat prompted like a national outcry, marches in Chicago, La San Francisco,okay, that that hasn't really happened in the mental health field. Mean there'sno shocking one instance where everyone says, oh my gosh, how dare wedepressed people that way? And that's not likely to happen. Yeah, butyou brought up a great point in that historically, in America anyway, allthe money comes from the men earning the income in the homosexual community. Inthat case, if you consider only the men part, yeah, you've gottwo men, ostensibly white males, who are at the highest earning capacity.So you're right. There was a commercial aspect to being able to remove thestigma and we like Barry Diller, we had really big people, David Geffen, though. Those were the big people who were too rich to give ashit and you know about what anybody thought. But we've never had since we've neverhad a male movie star of like a a status of Tom Cruise evercome out and write. Even remember like rock Hudson did posthumously kind of,and it became a big thing. We Yeah, we protected rock huts andhe would come to the Castro and we would see him and we did haveno getting him. But really was you've seen. You've seen, I meanyou have a storied history mark so you've seen like Rod Hudson in the Castroand Oh yeah, Oh yeah, there was, like there was lots ofthose people. We try to be cool about it just because of course youknow and of course it was an open secret. Well then that's the thingtoo, and a lot of cultures is how cool can you be about things? Like in Hollywood is like, Oh, I don't notice any stars in theCastro. It's like, I don't know any gay people. You know, it's the the contest when you're in that like, how cool can yoube not to notice it? Yeah, but yeah, it's kind like aNew York City when you know, when you see any when you see acelebrity in New York City, you just...

...you know, you pretend you're notabout to pass out. Right, no, right, and you see Warren Bettywith Diane Keaton Walk Past You, you just you know. I caneven tell you that Maria Shriver has fat ankles. Wow. Why know that? Because I was in Honolulu and her and they weren't he wasn't the governor. They were young and dating and I just thought, Oh my God,Poor Maria. They were going on the right of movies. Almost almost madea body's shaming joke in that like is that we're all her fat went tothe ankles. She's very thin. I don't mean. This is terrible thingto say and I don't like to just like noticed by was anything I couldnotice. It is a fascinating observation for someone that's so thin to have largerankles. I guess interesting that. Yeah, that is a thing to like.Can just just be cool. When I was in Los Angeles recently fora few years, yea, we see stars all the time and after awhile people say do you see stars and like yeah, yeah, I actuallydo, but I forgot which ones. Do you want me to tell youabout? Have you seen this person? Like actually, yeah, I didsee you, just after a while it's like, hm, not a thinggoing somewhere. I was snoopy. I should talk about this. I rememberbeing on an airplane coming back from London and grant tinker was sitting next tome. I'd use my finger flower miles and I wait. Grant Tinker waslike head of something at any Mbia and marry tyner Mars husband. You knowthat MTM? Oh, he was the MTM yeah, and now, okay, they already divorced. No, he was the tea and mtm yeah,and I only knew who he was. I kind of thought it was becausethey call you fight your first name. You know, let me call youMr Tinker, Mr Parsons. I was Mr Tinker and he got up togo to the bathroom and I took my foot and kind of rolled over whatI thought was some screen treat matter. So great anyway. So what youtalking about? stereotyper right, right, I'll shut up. Okay, soseconds. Okay, so we the the capitalism piece, the commercial aspect,tapping into your, let's call it a tribes money pot. Yeah, wehad. We had money to spend. That's same man had money to spend. I think that's a critical point because when I'm when I talk to themental health community, people with mental illnesses have the opposite of that. Theydon't have money to spend. In other words, this really severe mental illnessis to this disabling ones where, Yep, can't work or it's very hard.So that's a great point. Like homosexuality does not disable you in thatway at all. Right, that there's stigma involved, for sure, andit's and it's harsh. You never know how the home being gay disables you. You never will ever really know how it affects how you're treat it.I will never know to the extent, right, to the extent that itdi there, that it's been specific against me. I could hear. WhenI was younger, people would refer to me as coming eye, he's fromSan Francisco, if I would go to meetings in southern California. That wasthe code worker telling like a lawyer and a meeting with us or something thatmarks from San Francisco. Wink, wing, wow. No, yeah, andand I would always think that I'm going to fucking get you later forthat, you know. But yeah, yeah, but you're right. Howwould you know? Like you just you would. There's no way to know, because people are openly mean now. They're like, especially with trump ispresent, the becoming more openly racist and hostile to outsiders. They have toturn that hatred toward gay people yet, but just a matter of time andthen they'll turn it to the mentally ill. So that's kind of why I bringthese up, because homosexuality mental illness is not to conflate the two.That's saying. I'm not trying to bring homosexual I ality back to a disorderby any means for sure. What I'm trying to do is give hope topeople who have mental illnesses and let them know that sometimes there's a pathway toget that stigma eliminated all together. Right. I think with mental illness. Ithink. I think even from my experience here with living with people whohave problems, you know, and serious...

...disorders like schizophrenia. I don't evenknow all the classification. Sometimes I'm decided trying to decide these out of paranoidschizophrenic person. I'm kind of learning how to live with them and to havesome kind of conversation and not be mean. I mean you see it here alot, like people are sometimes really mean and to someone that they have. It's just their disorder, you know. But yeah, it's hard it becauseevery people. When you have disorders, they you tend to lose empathy.Once in a while. You can be empathetic towards others with disorders andin fact often you're more empathetic because you understand, but the moment that ptsdkicks in or your mania kicks in or just general anger, then yeah,you're going to explode on somebody you don't really know and that's that looks fora really volatile environment and I wouldn't imagine that would be that way in ahouse full of gay folks. You know, there might be a different type ofdraw Ding of why we'd be fighting over. You know, where's myshirt? You know away. Why did you know? Why is that Persianin your bedroom? No, we wouldn't be just arbitrarily angry spontaneously. Imean married. My my friend on the second floor, she has extreme anxiety, sort of, and she'll repeat what she says, but I'm so acouple times I've been really upset with her and I don't know how to dealwith with it. You know, it's like married. Please just let meset this box of cookies down, and you know she won't get out ofmy way and it's so irritating. And then I'm saying now, you know, you so, then we just too normal people that are irritated. Nextday I see her and I say, you know, I apologize and saidno, I was in the way, which is we're just two normal people. But I also know she can't come in the front door. I've learnedthis without going through a ritual. So now if I see her coming,I don't give her any anxiety because I know that and I just let heropen the door. You accept, hold it for her and she's got abunch of stuff, you know, six purs or she's bought and other peoplethat are just mean to her. You just mean to her about her screamingand stuff, and even we were at a meeting where she was repeating stuffand names and you she wasn't supposed to. I knew she couldn't help herself fromthat. But and anybody with a heart could clearly see in that typeof situation that Oh, that's a person that has an issue and we're notdoctors, we can't diagnose it right now. But simply just understand that that personhas an issue. Treat that with kindness, don't call the police andthis type of things. You know she's gotten the police called on her andreach a shopping in the retail store. Well, and here's another thing,dude, people used to call the police on gay people. You know whatI mean. So as we go through all these, the comparisons I've beenthinking about since walking through the pride parade area, I'm started thinking, Wow, yeah, it's in. They all pop up. I was certain that. You know, the reason I hit was not invested in the marriage stuffis my experience has been that every time there's a move forward, because remember, the gay movement was a political movement until it's came along and in thegay movement ceased to be a political movement when ace came along. It's justeverything that was going forward just was put on hold for a long time andthat's changed movement. But when the marriage came I knew that there was Ididn't even care anymore because they didn't know whether they would return it to theto the courts or states. Right, the states or the city. SoI was totally shocked and, as I told you, like, I'm willingto marry for money now and Mary for you guys. He wants to immigrate. Anybody needs somebody to be married. We can work out a deal ata nice basement. We can hygiene for a while. Yeah, it's coolbecause I would be really good at that because I observe things. So whenthey immigration, people ask you what color socks you wear. I wear,I'll know right. So mark is the sanctuary city. Mark he's got hisown sanctuary city, city of Markville. I mean so I don't even thinkabout it. But the what were you...

...talking about? Join the party atbipolar PARTYCOM. So I think I could never talk to a person here whohad like really bad ocd or something and in one day out front there wasa man named Richard who used to live here and when I came here hewas a neighbor and I thought he was completely normal and I kind of wouldwatch him and stuff, and then something changed, which probably meant he wentoff his medication on to illegal medication, which is very, very common.So it's very common in mental illness and and even in just regular illness.Yeah, just and even here for me, like, yeah, the few timesthat I've gone down that road, it says I totally now understand.Then it is the only thing that brings you some kind of relief from justall of it. You can just kind of blow yourself away for a tinybit. And and so that's why you see a lot of people with mentalillness stop their medications and go crazy. Wait, can we talk about that? Yeah, so when you said to really understand it, because when youwent, you'd say, went down that road. So we talk in mentalillness, drug addiction and or both. Well, I'm here. I'm herefor really serious depression. I spent something happened to me in two thousand andsix that took me so out of my life. I was with the sameperson for three thirty five years. Believe that or not? Big Loss.Yet thirty five years sudden loss, and I who you're talking to you now, is half part of my I. I always say I survived and didn'tsurvive, both at the same time. So that's happened to me. Itwasn't drugs, it was just just shock of what happened, to lose mypartner and find that out on in a answering machine. It's like you youhave no idea what that feels like. So I put a long time,you know, I was on the run for a few years, just moving, not knowing. I you know, I it was just a really roughtime. I feel like you were chasing something or running from I felt like, because no know what to do with it. No one, not,no one, not to do with me, like suddenly, mark is this crazyand everyone was kind of dependent upon me, you know, and I'mjust like I was on the run. I ended up I ended up stayingwith my mother with a blanket over my head in her basement for almost twoyears and tried it was time to come back here. And Yeah, Imean I didn't think I was going to make it for the longest time andI had a psychiatrist to it say on this story again. So all thestuff. It just like. So when I ended up here, I endedup here through you know this, all these city programs of ended up onthe street, you know. And was that from depression directly, or doyou think depression plus drugs? No, it was all from it was allfrom it was from depression. I don't eat. I don't even know.I mean I remember the doctor in Colorado said to me, let's pretend wherein New York City and you know, and I'm a fancy shrink and Enstiso I would be saying things to like this to you. Would you considerelectro shock right? You know, would you consider you know this or that? I'm trying to jump start you back into some because I'm really concerned it'syou're going to, you know, just fade out and I said no,electric shock. No, you know,...

I just was resistant to any treatmentbecause I couldn't even I don't know how I made the decisions that I evendid. Some of them are wrong. But See, I'm like, Fay, what do you think? WHAT'S A wrong decision? What do you do? You have like regrets? Do you really think it was a wrong decisionor just something that you wished would but we have. What I regret it'swhen Tim died. I just let everybody run my life and there were circumstanceswhich I just I just totally got pushed around and I just listen same Iwas out of my mind, the set of my mind. You know,I ended up in every I have every mental hospital in San Francisco. Yeah, and that those kind of things. It's just like I never saw suchcruelty as I did in those places. I'll never go back there. Doyou know? It's not a place for help. So no place for helps. No. So you know, when I see all this stuff, thedepression and stuff, and it's really stigmatized. So you getting back to the stigma. Think I appreciate you sharing that. I've kind of fell off the deepend when my wife left me and I went into that fucked up justI'm lost, I'm depressed, I'm falling, like constant fault like falling. Howdo I fall while I'm lying in bed in the dark? It justit was amazing in hindsight, amazing in a bad way. So yeah,and I'm shocking. And it did last for a couple of years last yearlike wow, but reminds me now. So in the mental health arena,say on twitter, facebook and whatnot, a lot of people are both outof one side of their head. They're complaining about the ailments, how badI feel, how she did, I feel better. On the other halfthey're saying, oh, why is everybody they always stigmatizing us? Why arethey stigmatizing us? and to me I think this is a is a conundrumbecause effectively they are spreading the stigma on one hand and complaining about the stigmaon the other hand. For example, if in the gay community all youran around was touting aid statistics, people probably wouldn't embrace homosexuality right. Sowhat they did instead was they showed facts. They said here's how age is spread, and so, you know, basically try to do diffuse the stigmawith facts. In the case of mass killers, they try to point tothe mentally ill, but in fact it's usually angry white guys that are notmentally ill, or at least not diagnosed. So pointing to the facts always helps. But yeah, do you have any thoughts on that? Well,the first thing they're saying that it's like what happened in the age crisis is, you know it. The first thing that I thought about when you saidthat was all that stuff that surface of people intentionally infecting themselves, Suff stuffthat would I don't think that a lot of American knew some of that stuffthat was going on because it was something. I thought, this is really bad, just not imagewise. This is really hard to think about on anylevel that people want just wanted to get the AIDS virus so they would gethave it and know they wouldn't have to worry the rest of their life thatthey might get it. They'd have it and it it's called I didn't wantlike chicken box in a way. Yeah, I mean they call it breeding,which is just this horrible interesting I've never heard that term of the kind. I mean. I like to say that word because it's like it's sointegrated now into that time that they had words for it. They just wantedto they wanted to get ill so that they would be free of it.Yeah, no, I mean there's some some logic in that, I guess. But back to the other point. That wasn't the advertised thing, youknow, that's not what they were advertising. To destigmatize homosexuality. So in thesame sense, I don't understand people...

...who are complaining about their mental illnesseson one hand and then say, why are you stigmatizing me? I'm horrible, I'm depressed, I feel like Shit. Why are you stigmatizing and just goingback and forth. Well, I can think of I don't know,this probably won't make sense to anybody, but I can think of even someoneI know here, like, if I've no idea why my phone is nowannouncing this, I've turned something on, like like when you, I knowI've known before, like if you have know something who's hypochondriact or who youknow has some issues or thinks they have an undiagnosed illness, like I knowsomeone here who's like that. And like, if you have an undiagnosed illness fortwenty two years, you have a diagnosis, and that diagnosis is isnot medical, it's it's psychological behavior. Yeah, yes, and you knowif you're trying to sell that, you know, if you're trying to sellyour situation it. You know as it no one's going to buy it.No one's going to believe this person, ever that she hasn't no diagnosis.And how awful her life is because she has one hour a day. Shehas no energy. And I'm not saying I'm just saying it's just weird tome because you do have a diagnosis, you know you have some problem,and you could have gotten disability, you know, and not live so horribly. But she wouldn't face that. You know that was true or I'm seeing. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Well, people that it gets backto okay. Like, for example, when I got really poor in SanFrancisco many years back, I was fucking struggling, couldn't eat, Iwas shoplift and cheese, you know, just to fucking survived. Wow,I went to the foodstamp place, whatever it's called these days, to getmy little ebt card and and I was on the edge, dude, Iwas on the edge. I stood in line, had nothing to do thatday. I was like out of work, out of money, and got upto the lady and filled out the paperwork. She goes, Oh,okay, you're going to get to hundred and seventy five, and I almostalmost start to cry. I'm like, Hoph I want to tell like alot of money, mean you fucking Hell of money. I'm like, Oh, that's amazing and I'm like, what's that paper for? It goes,oh, that's next month's. I'm like to seventy five every month. Shegoes yeah, and then I literally did start to kind of cry a littlebit and I saw wiping my tears and like she goes, she's so,she was trying to be kind. She says, Oh, it's okay,you didn't know. And then, without missing a beat, but you didn'task. So like well, yeah, that's true, I didn't ask.So all the suffering people go through a lot of times it's because they didn'task the right questions. So a lot of suffering, I found as people, especially the mentally ill, like look at the president's he suffers from whatI've found to be called a Nosa Noitia, which is a mental disease, whichmeans lack of insight. It means you lack the inner the ability toeven know that you have a mental disease. So therefore you never go get ittreated because you don't think you have one. Okay, and since younever get it treated, you're going to be a fucking mental patient forevermore becauseyou just haven't been diagnosed, because you refuse the diagnosis. Because just becauseyou refuse a diagnosis and refuse to see a doctor doesn't mean you're mentally fitfor anything. It's kind of the same way with registering the gun. Wemake people who buy guns go register them, but we have people with brains thatnever ever have mental health checks, it's true, and we let themrun the country. And that made me think. You know, my doctornow till she has to remind me, like I'm so once in a whileshe has to remind me that I'm depressed, because I think that I think it'sjust me. I have law. I have forgotten that I'm in treatmentfor depression. Well, that's there's a distinction there. I think that sheshould like. So, you might not be depressed, like actively sad rightnow, but you clinically have depression. Yes, you know what I mean. Yeah, and, but, but, and I'm I allectually know it,but on a day today function,...

I'm not going around thinking I'm depressedor using it as an excuse right for why I can't do anythings. Andand like I'm always being told I'm too isolative, I should get out ofmy room, and then sometimes I think, well, that's the only place Ifeel safe yeah, and I see you all. That's why we talked, because I see you out in the lobby a lot. So I'm doingyour part for sure to try to interact in inappropriate way. You're not onthe street with those. Well, some people. I'm on the street,because that instantially like it's our front yard. Really. Yeah, I have afriend out there and bet I'm really I'm really worried. He's maybe adied last night. I have a friend who is out there who has drugissues and mental health issues. Why do you think it might have died lastnight? Because I saw him out some out there last night. He hadan infection in his arm. I never seen it. Was choozing and Isaid, Brad, you have to go to the hospital, you have togo to hospital, I'm going to call an ambulance. You have got togo to the hospital. And he's trying to keep he's a smart person.This is a person who saved my life here. This is a strange yourwho literally saved my life here. I kind of you know, sometimes Iwish it hadn't happened, but and he didn't know me and he saved mylife. Literally saying he's out there on the street. He got evicted.He could get septic with that thing if he didn't go last night. Youknow, that's outside and that's like what can I do for him in?But Anyway, what was my point? Damn it. See, that's okay, that's fun, because people listen to the podcast will hear it and like, Oh yeah, that was a neat story. It's really hard when wherethose meetings people are talking people out front, because it's like I just can't talkabout those people because I don't know that. Actually, that was mypoint. You don't socially isolate any more than most people, and the interestingpoint is that when you do, those are the kind of folks that youmake friends with and interact with. So I think that's powerful. A lotof people sitting there could you little cubicles at their office and go to theirbecause you little comb in the suburbs in the middle of America, and they'relike, Oh, I'm social no, you're not. You're sitting in acubicle, you're sitting in your car and you're sitting in your house. So, mark, like you just said, you think you're socially isolating yourself,you're actually doing a good job we're in the middle of a fucking crazy asscity, dude, right here in this particular neighborhood. You know, justpoking your finger out to test the wind is something else here, I know. But I'm also I'm also, I don't know if I've always been thisway, but I am pathologically, pathologically over empathetic. I mean, it'sjust like, I will, I mean, I just it's maybe this is bustingthe of it. I mean, you know, you have to bekind of tough here, and I will. I will put some if someone needsa dollar and it's my wallet, you know, fine, but Imean, I can't give Brad my last twenty so he can not be sick. You know, it's just like, well, then you'll be horrible.It's a horrible you know, I'm not on drugs, but will. Here'smy theory. In not my theory, but the thing I've adopted since Iread it a while back, is that we become the average of the fivepeople that we are around the most. So, like Whoa so, therefore, yet don't give you money to people because of the then you'll be poorjust like them. So, I mean, I could have given Brad Twenty dollars. I knew yesterday they was probably would be for heroin, but Iwas trying to get him to go to the hospital right and so I wentto my atm to see what there was left and I got a twenty dollarbill and I gave him five and I just thought last night then when Iwent out to see my thought. I've been thinking that every day now,like the next word I've got hurt is that he died. I'm expecting Bradto die. He's thirty seven years old, is Rhanda. I'm so he's goingto die because he when he got out on the street and it washis own fault here. I mean he didn't pay his rent and it's justit's a really weird expense. You've got...

...the mental you know, yester stalhealth out there. I'm mental health in or. The only difference is youjust haven't broke yet, because this is I tell people that I know it'slike a mental hospital, but no doctors work here. Yes, dump allthe people here in good luck and then if you break, then eventually theproperty management system will just say, Oh, you didn't pay reditary like cold hardproperty management. There's no social service involved to help you. That iscrazy. So, getting back to the comparative stigma thing real quick before wewrap it up. Only if you could know this is a great people lovethis because it's way better than just hearing me talk to myself, which iswhat most of my podcast listeners maybe you can edit it, because if Isound really dumb. Nope, man, your voice sounds great too for podcast. All right, have you ever heard watch the documentary? Do I soundgay? If you've seen the yes, I I can't believe you. Oh, I have a lot to say about that. Amazing. Yeah, becauseI'm one of those people. We I I'm one of those people who triedto change my voice to not sound gator, to say to not sound gay,because, wow, you've seen that. I watch every documentary can get myhands on, especially that one, because I've been fascinated and like,where's gay land? Where do you adopt that accent? And I'm into justanthropology and human behavior. You like. So you heard what you heard,that it's about a tribe, it's the change, that's the language of thetribe. Well, yeah, but a lot of people don't. I don'tknow why. I hate those people that you know that you don't but youknow, most of people don't sound gay, but I sound gay and I havemy own theories and I have I understand their theories and I also listento a fresh are about linguistics in the debate on, you know, vocalfry and you can I used to try to not sound gay on my own. I never would have, well, I might have, actually I was. I would have been too embarrassed to go to voice coach or whatever itis right try to do that, but I tried on my own and thenI just I gave up like he did in the end. I thought whathe tried to do I tried to do on my own and it just fuckit. I mean, I can't change my voice. My theory is andthey had it in the documentary. There was, but I felt felt likeit's just a cross between the masculine and the feminine, and I think theywere talking about that, weren't they in put the documentary that it's just myvoice and I've sometimes people take them from the south. I don't feel likeI sound like a woman now and there are southern gays right and yeah,if you hear a gay guy from the south it's like, oh no,that's gay and south and like like. You sound like you're from San Francisco. It's definitely a Western, you know, accent, but did the first timeyou heard my voice, didn't you? Didn't you know right away? Ifthere was any question, I'd start assumes, you know, in SanFrancisco, and you know, it's like I just stopped judging because right,like, look at me, I'm I purposefully don't exude any which direction onpurpose. Yeah, I'm some and I don't have an accent. Well,this is why I brought it up, because people from other countries like Russia, the UK, the Ukraine and places like that, they swear I'm oneof them and I have an acting coach in five times now, twice,three times in La and twice up here. My lift or Uber driver have said, Dude, what's your accents? I know that accit the you that'sa really good American accent, and I'm like no, dude, that's that'smy act. This is how I talk. No, no, where are youfrom? Okay, and I'm like are you doing a really good Americanaccent? Like what the fuck? You have a good American accent. That'strue, but I don't I'm not sure what that is to the well,you know, you know when you when you go to Europe and you heara British, you know, you think that's a British accent. We forgetwe have an accent, right, right, and we have we have. Yeah, yeah, especially California, where the deep of America. Yeah,I don't know. What what are they thinking? I'm in Europe. Whatare they I don't know. What do they think when they hear me talk? What's weird to me is, you see, you kind of have asouthern Twang, though. Were you from the south at all, or youwere from the East Coast? I thought I'm at from a little town ina high desert. So you know,...

...this accent has is not. Okay, so that's not south. That's more gay than south. Totally totally get. And you know what? I can do that. I can do allthe the other slang like you know, but I you know, girlfriend andall that stuff. But all right, but you're like a wise I haven'thave enough burden. Yeah, I enough burden just to have credibility and havethis this this voice. That's what's so hard for me is it's a tripgetting older too like as I get older, I find I have to draw upsome of the skateboard or slang, the punk rocks Lang. Yeah,the street, but it's hard. Like I say, Hella fucking shit allthat. I talk like that all the time still, and I can adoptthat around here. I can start, you know, I can kind of, you know, adopt some of the slang from all the that I hearhere. If you could eliminate stigma from one or the other, if youcould only pick, a genie said I will wipe away stigma from homosexuality ordepression. Which would you pick? At this point in my life, Iwould probably say depression and those kind of mental illnesses that people have some controlover. That would be nice. I feel like I've been lucky enough.So give some people like because, you know, just give some schizophrenic peoplea break. Just go along with it, you know, or just just workwith what you have to work with. You know, that's what I do. Just you can. You can deal with the person schizophrenic if they're, you know, and not say me mean and cruel or act on domean things on their behalf. Yeah, you know, there's just too much. You know, it's all sime you, I'm wondering that time. Maybe they'respeaking the language of the architect to us, of the Grand Arcs,whether you call it God or the game program or whatever. Sometimes I'm whenI hear a schizophrenic say some weird shit like Purple Basketball, Yo, Yo, and I'm like well, well, I better write that down. I'mpulling out my phone like a better fucking google this sequence of words, thinkingthat maybe that schizophrenic person is a rip in the Matrix and is telling mesomething I need to know. So I think if you ignore schizophrenic people onthe streets, you do so at your own peril. They are sending youa message. Yeah, that's a good that's good way of putting it.Well, so it's one way to think about when you're trying to be kindto somebody. Just make it a game. Be Kind and remember it's there.You know, Young said about schizophrenia that that it, that is theworld they're in and they're they're shifting that world all the time and if youlisten to them, it's not they haven't been influenced by what they've seen orheard. Their processing that stuff some way. That's completely differently right. Whole differentperspective. I have a something. I lost it. That's fascinating thatthat you would eliminate the the depression stigma over the homosexual stigma. But isit? Maybe that's because the homosexual stigma's largely been reduced in the past generation. Well, I'll tell you this, even though I've never been hit physicallyuntil I came to the Cadillac or yeah, because of I've never been at headviolence on the until it came here, which was by accident. But I'veseen more mistreatment here at the Cadillac of mental health people, by peoplemanagement, everybody, by the industry that's here to help us. HMM.And so I guess that's why I'm I I I noticed it more. Inotice that I'm a minority here, which is really interesting when you what kindof Milady. Well, I'm within the CATALAC I'm with a community. I'mwhite and there's a larger Latino population here and yeah, I don't know aboutblack population, but I'm part of it. You know I'm not. It's hindof more isolated here. It's weird being part of a minority population whenwe're still we've had a lifetime of entitlement yeah, you know what I mean? Is that weird? I find that weird to because we're definitely there arefar fewer white people in here, but...

...we carry the burden of like Oh, well, you had you had chance all your life, buddy. Well, yeah, and I never feel like I was. I'm I was,even though I was a gay white male. I never felt like I was.I wasn't afforded all those proses. Now and when back when your kid, you don't understand, you don't realize what white privilege is. You don'treally because you live in a white world. So your privilege is relative to otherwhite people. So when you're another privilege. Yeah, so when you'rea kid and you're in like third grade and you're just comparing yourself to otherrich white kids and you're the poor white kid, you don't it's hard tocomprehend what it. You know, spos is something. I had a cleanwell, right, and you know, my sister didn't fucking government cheese.I know there's no government cheese, but I had to clean that fucking pilledfilter. You know, I didn't have any crank to do like they donow. That just backwashes it. So yeah, there was there was aburden with all the privilege. Yeah, well, when you working for theprivileged people. Yeah, I don't want to convolute. The word privilege inthat sense is just kind of weird, because we do have white privilege andman, but it just sucks that sometimes I feel guilty that it waste it, but I'm the like, how do I better use my white privilege tohelp everybody instead of just me? Oh, I just want to help me.Now I don't, you know, just trying to survive, just getthrough this stage. I just want to sell my abilities. I wanted tosee how bad that is. I want to sell my village to marry somebody. I don't care about it marriage at all. Go to a state wherethey don't allow it and I'll just say, Hey, I'll give you my Californiaa gay marriage ticket. I'm going to put ads in certain countries.That's how do yeah, you know, and advertise for a mayor some somebodyin another culture who wants to come here and I'll marry them. That's interestingthing. That's another thing I found about mental illness in homosexuality is that insome parts of the world neither one is even recognized as a thing. No, I mean, I mean it. The behavior occurs, but society isand parts of the world just don't acknowledge them as the thing. When youfirst came here, you said you were kind of very vocal about your veryvocal about being having depression. Yeah, and I'm sorry, that's kind ofamazing. You know, this dudes come to be our director and he waskind of like really out and I thought, wow, you know, you weren'tbothered at all by it. I will as I'm functioning right. Igot the job, they hired me. I mean, yeah, nobody.Mean you were looking like for I was kind of looking around. I'm thinkingabout what do you do? The city services? I was thinking, youknow, I know a good one. It's four hundred an hour. Imean, you know, I thought I was already looking for I go tothe group. Actually that St Francis really close. It's pretty cool. Depressiongroup twice a week. I don't go twice a week because a lot oftimes I'm fine green. Being around depressed people fucking depresses a shit out ofme when I'm feeling fine, and I'm every depressed person I'm sure would feelthe same way. But yeah, if you're feeling fine. The last thingyou want to be around is depressed people. When you're depressed, the best placeto go is to a depression meeting. I don't think there's many to Idon't think there's many depressed people here. Well, we mean well with withdepression or actively depressed. Like there's probably quite a few people depression,but I've just I think a lot of people have PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolardisorder. So because depression won't manifest well, be hard for you to deal within this situation. Is a tenant with it? Maybe, I don'tknow. Isolation will kill you still. I mean either way, because weall live in little boxes and so if you're slightly depressed, the isolation willjust put you in deeper. And a lot of people here are too poorto before the internet or TV, so they literally sit in a box allday and stare at the wall. It's twisted. We got to fix thatanyway. Cool Man, I appreciate you coming on. Let's let's talk aboutother weird stuff in the future. Yeah, okay, I'll have a segment calledask mark. I know styles on my cheese and sat five following joy. Excuse me,.

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