Signal Drops
Signal Drops

Episode · 3 years ago

Borrowing anti-stigma tactics from the homosexual community; what works?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Since the DSM (mental health diagnoses manual) was first published in 1968 until 1989 it listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. First, it was Sexual Orientation Disorder. Then it became Sexual Orientation Disturbance. Now, it's fully embraced in parades around the world each June. Why can't the Bipolar community engage the same tactics to have their "disorder" embraced in such a joyous way? What strategies and tactics can the Bipolar community borrow from the gay community to reduce our own stigma? Listen as John talks to a gentleman who is both gay and depressed.

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It's only now it's online Bible. This stylecom emotions with Bible style. All right, so you know I'm based in downtown San Francisco, USA, right, and you may also know that San Francisco has a long, colorful history with homosexual community and you know that this show is about oftentimes mental health related topics. So I'm wondering, especially after the big pride month, like all of June is pride month and it culminates in huge festival here, like a million plus people in downtown San Francisco, all kinds of rainbow flags and glitter and everyone's just being their best gayness right. Everyone brings it, be as gay as you can be. I'm thinking that's interesting and because not long ago, when the diagnostic manual from mental disorders came out in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, homosexuality was a mental disorder and not until one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine did they have it removed out of that book. Until then it went from a disorder to a disturbance, something they called a mental disturbance, sexual orientation disturbance. So anyway, my point being is, if one sidelines community that had been stigmatized and labeled can shake their stigma? Are there any tools in that community that the mental health community can use to reduce stigma amongst people who suffer from mental disorders? So I found a guy in my building. He's a really nice guy named mark, who agreed to come on the podcast and marks really cool in general, but he's also a great character to talk to these issues because he suffers from severe depression, sometimes he's clinically depressed, and he's also homosexual. So we have an interesting conversation and I brought up some of my more ridiculous points to get his thoughts on them and we kind of we worked out a few things on how the mental health community can better further their cause and we also found some key stumbling points that I don't think we will ever be able to mitigate. So listen in as we walk through the Ruckus of the parade, and I think I got it tuned out just right. You might hear the Ruckus in the background, but hopefully you can hear our conversation. So we'll just cut to it. Here is me talking to mark a about how the mental health community might be able to use the tools of the homosexual community to reduce stigma. Join the party at Bipolar Partycom well, Hey, oh, so here's here's why we talked in the lobby, right. So I asked you to be on the PODCAST. And and Mark Lives in my building with me and he shares this perspective on lots of interesting things, so I feel comfortable sharing this idea with him to get his feedback. Okay, so after the pride weekend it was amazing, right, just shit ton of people all over town celebrating what used to be, as recently is one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, a mental disturbance. Now, hear me out. So in one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight, the diagnostic manual that lists things like bipolar and schizophrenia, Dottada, also listed homosexuality as a disorder and like. That's fascinating and I don't know it. I don't think disorder. I don't want to know. I don't think most people that are around today, or woke or whatever, realize...

...that as recent is, in one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, it was still and it got listed down from a disorder to a disturbance and now it's been taken out pretty much completely of all the mental health manuals. It's great. So I guess my point being is, how do we determine what's behavior oriented, like, say, a bipolar person talking too much or spending all the money in their bank account or being depressed and staying in bed all day or whatever? How do we get those people destigmatized to the point where we could have a big parade full of, you know, mentally ill people? Well, is that anything? Is that a fair comparison and all, there's anothers how you do it? Here's the answer to how you do it. Okay, I don't know whether it's comparison or not. You you have to they have to be able to dress normal, have normal jobs, look like they're totally represent whatever age group they need to be. They have to look successful. They have to probably still be white, want wall before anyone consider they might be neural. But okay, the hard one said. No, that's I've come across this too, and I think kind of similarly. So to eliminate stigma you have to be all of the things a quote unquote normal person is. We used to think that, and then some and then over. We used to think that. We used to think that we needed to. We need the appearance of people, you know, the that looks entirely normal, the lipstick lesbians, the Marlboro Man, that that would be helpful. But in fact it didn't make any difference. It did make any difference. Well, because that's what what was being of. The people were sneaking around. ABC News was in our parks photographing men in the parks and, you know, having sex in the bushes, and that's and that was the image. It just get going around and I think after well, I think I told you to see other day. It's what change this stigma. What changed was our value are that we were something that was worth a lot of money in we had money to spend, we were consumers. Wow, that's a great point. Okay, so, aside from the things like the shocking turn of events at Stone Wall that prompted like a national outcry, marches in Chicago, La San Francisco, okay, that that hasn't really happened in the mental health field. Mean there's no shocking one instance where everyone says, oh my gosh, how dare we depressed people that way? And that's not likely to happen. Yeah, but you brought up a great point in that historically, in America anyway, all the money comes from the men earning the income in the homosexual community. In that case, if you consider only the men part, yeah, you've got two men, ostensibly white males, who are at the highest earning capacity. So you're right. There was a commercial aspect to being able to remove the stigma and we like Barry Diller, we had really big people, David Geffen, though. Those were the big people who were too rich to give a shit and you know about what anybody thought. But we've never had since we've never had a male movie star of like a a status of Tom Cruise ever come out and write. Even remember like rock Hudson did posthumously kind of, and it became a big thing. We Yeah, we protected rock huts and he would come to the Castro and we would see him and we did have no getting him. But really was you've seen. You've seen, I mean you have a storied history mark so you've seen like Rod Hudson in the Castro and Oh yeah, Oh yeah, there was, like there was lots of those people. We try to be cool about it just because of course you know and of course it was an open secret. Well then that's the thing too, and a lot of cultures is how cool can you be about things? Like in Hollywood is like, Oh, I don't notice any stars in the Castro. It's like, I don't know any gay people. You know, it's the the contest when you're in that like, how cool can you be not to notice it? Yeah, but yeah, it's kind like a New York City when you know, when you see any when you see a celebrity in New York City, you just...

...you know, you pretend you're not about to pass out. Right, no, right, and you see Warren Betty with Diane Keaton Walk Past You, you just you know. I can even tell you that Maria Shriver has fat ankles. Wow. Why know that? Because I was in Honolulu and her and they weren't he wasn't the governor. They were young and dating and I just thought, Oh my God, Poor Maria. They were going on the right of movies. Almost almost made a body's shaming joke in that like is that we're all her fat went to the ankles. She's very thin. I don't mean. This is terrible thing to say and I don't like to just like noticed by was anything I could notice. It is a fascinating observation for someone that's so thin to have larger ankles. I guess interesting that. Yeah, that is a thing to like. Can just just be cool. When I was in Los Angeles recently for a few years, yea, we see stars all the time and after a while people say do you see stars and like yeah, yeah, I actually do, but I forgot which ones. Do you want me to tell you about? Have you seen this person? Like actually, yeah, I did see you, just after a while it's like, hm, not a thing going somewhere. I was snoopy. I should talk about this. I remember being on an airplane coming back from London and grant tinker was sitting next to me. I'd use my finger flower miles and I wait. Grant Tinker was like head of something at any Mbia and marry tyner Mars husband. You know that MTM? Oh, he was the MTM yeah, and now, okay, they already divorced. No, he was the tea and mtm yeah, and I only knew who he was. I kind of thought it was because they call you fight your first name. You know, let me call you Mr Tinker, Mr Parsons. I was Mr Tinker and he got up to go to the bathroom and I took my foot and kind of rolled over what I thought was some screen treat matter. So great anyway. So what you talking about? stereotyper right, right, I'll shut up. Okay, so seconds. Okay, so we the the capitalism piece, the commercial aspect, tapping into your, let's call it a tribes money pot. Yeah, we had. We had money to spend. That's same man had money to spend. I think that's a critical point because when I'm when I talk to the mental health community, people with mental illnesses have the opposite of that. They don't have money to spend. In other words, this really severe mental illness is to this disabling ones where, Yep, can't work or it's very hard. So that's a great point. Like homosexuality does not disable you in that way at all. Right, that there's stigma involved, for sure, and it's and it's harsh. You never know how the home being gay disables you. You never will ever really know how it affects how you're treat it. I will never know to the extent, right, to the extent that it di there, that it's been specific against me. I could hear. When I was younger, people would refer to me as coming eye, he's from San Francisco, if I would go to meetings in southern California. That was the code worker telling like a lawyer and a meeting with us or something that marks from San Francisco. Wink, wing, wow. No, yeah, and and I would always think that I'm going to fucking get you later for that, you know. But yeah, yeah, but you're right. How would you know? Like you just you would. There's no way to know, because people are openly mean now. They're like, especially with trump is present, the becoming more openly racist and hostile to outsiders. They have to turn that hatred toward gay people yet, but just a matter of time and then they'll turn it to the mentally ill. So that's kind of why I bring these up, because homosexuality mental illness is not to conflate the two. That's saying. I'm not trying to bring homosexual I ality back to a disorder by any means for sure. What I'm trying to do is give hope to people who have mental illnesses and let them know that sometimes there's a pathway to get that stigma eliminated all together. Right. I think with mental illness. I think. I think even from my experience here with living with people who have problems, you know, and serious...

...disorders like schizophrenia. I don't even know all the classification. Sometimes I'm decided trying to decide these out of paranoid schizophrenic person. I'm kind of learning how to live with them and to have some kind of conversation and not be mean. I mean you see it here a lot, like people are sometimes really mean and to someone that they have. It's just their disorder, you know. But yeah, it's hard it because every people. When you have disorders, they you tend to lose empathy. Once in a while. You can be empathetic towards others with disorders and in fact often you're more empathetic because you understand, but the moment that ptsd kicks in or your mania kicks in or just general anger, then yeah, you're going to explode on somebody you don't really know and that's that looks for a really volatile environment and I wouldn't imagine that would be that way in a house full of gay folks. You know, there might be a different type of draw Ding of why we'd be fighting over. You know, where's my shirt? You know away. Why did you know? Why is that Persian in your bedroom? No, we wouldn't be just arbitrarily angry spontaneously. I mean married. My my friend on the second floor, she has extreme anxiety, sort of, and she'll repeat what she says, but I'm so a couple times I've been really upset with her and I don't know how to deal with with it. You know, it's like married. Please just let me set this box of cookies down, and you know she won't get out of my way and it's so irritating. And then I'm saying now, you know, you so, then we just too normal people that are irritated. Next day I see her and I say, you know, I apologize and said no, I was in the way, which is we're just two normal people. But I also know she can't come in the front door. I've learned this without going through a ritual. So now if I see her coming, I don't give her any anxiety because I know that and I just let her open the door. You accept, hold it for her and she's got a bunch of stuff, you know, six purs or she's bought and other people that are just mean to her. You just mean to her about her screaming and stuff, and even we were at a meeting where she was repeating stuff and names and you she wasn't supposed to. I knew she couldn't help herself from that. But and anybody with a heart could clearly see in that type of situation that Oh, that's a person that has an issue and we're not doctors, we can't diagnose it right now. But simply just understand that that person has an issue. Treat that with kindness, don't call the police and this type of things. You know she's gotten the police called on her and reach a shopping in the retail store. Well, and here's another thing, dude, people used to call the police on gay people. You know what I mean. So as we go through all these, the comparisons I've been thinking about since walking through the pride parade area, I'm started thinking, Wow, yeah, it's in. They all pop up. I was certain that. You know, the reason I hit was not invested in the marriage stuff is my experience has been that every time there's a move forward, because remember, the gay movement was a political movement until it's came along and in the gay movement ceased to be a political movement when ace came along. It's just everything that was going forward just was put on hold for a long time and that's changed movement. But when the marriage came I knew that there was I didn't even care anymore because they didn't know whether they would return it to the to the courts or states. Right, the states or the city. So I was totally shocked and, as I told you, like, I'm willing to marry for money now and Mary for you guys. He wants to immigrate. Anybody needs somebody to be married. We can work out a deal at a nice basement. We can hygiene for a while. Yeah, it's cool because I would be really good at that because I observe things. So when they immigration, people ask you what color socks you wear. I wear, I'll know right. So mark is the sanctuary city. Mark he's got his own sanctuary city, city of Markville. I mean so I don't even think about it. But the what were you...

...talking about? Join the party at bipolar PARTYCOM. So I think I could never talk to a person here who had like really bad ocd or something and in one day out front there was a man named Richard who used to live here and when I came here he was a neighbor and I thought he was completely normal and I kind of would watch him and stuff, and then something changed, which probably meant he went off his medication on to illegal medication, which is very, very common. So it's very common in mental illness and and even in just regular illness. Yeah, just and even here for me, like, yeah, the few times that I've gone down that road, it says I totally now understand. Then it is the only thing that brings you some kind of relief from just all of it. You can just kind of blow yourself away for a tiny bit. And and so that's why you see a lot of people with mental illness stop their medications and go crazy. Wait, can we talk about that? Yeah, so when you said to really understand it, because when you went, you'd say, went down that road. So we talk in mental illness, drug addiction and or both. Well, I'm here. I'm here for really serious depression. I spent something happened to me in two thousand and six that took me so out of my life. I was with the same person for three thirty five years. Believe that or not? Big Loss. Yet thirty five years sudden loss, and I who you're talking to you now, is half part of my I. I always say I survived and didn't survive, both at the same time. So that's happened to me. It wasn't drugs, it was just just shock of what happened, to lose my partner and find that out on in a answering machine. It's like you you have no idea what that feels like. So I put a long time, you know, I was on the run for a few years, just moving, not knowing. I you know, I it was just a really rough time. I feel like you were chasing something or running from I felt like, because no know what to do with it. No one, not, no one, not to do with me, like suddenly, mark is this crazy and everyone was kind of dependent upon me, you know, and I'm just like I was on the run. I ended up I ended up staying with my mother with a blanket over my head in her basement for almost two years and tried it was time to come back here. And Yeah, I mean I didn't think I was going to make it for the longest time and I had a psychiatrist to it say on this story again. So all the stuff. It just like. So when I ended up here, I ended up here through you know this, all these city programs of ended up on the street, you know. And was that from depression directly, or do you think depression plus drugs? No, it was all from it was all from it was from depression. I don't eat. I don't even know. I mean I remember the doctor in Colorado said to me, let's pretend where in New York City and you know, and I'm a fancy shrink and Ensti so I would be saying things to like this to you. Would you consider electro shock right? You know, would you consider you know this or that? I'm trying to jump start you back into some because I'm really concerned it's you're going to, you know, just fade out and I said no, electric shock. No, you know,...

I just was resistant to any treatment because I couldn't even I don't know how I made the decisions that I even did. Some of them are wrong. But See, I'm like, Fay, what do you think? WHAT'S A wrong decision? What do you do? You have like regrets? Do you really think it was a wrong decision or just something that you wished would but we have. What I regret it's when Tim died. I just let everybody run my life and there were circumstances which I just I just totally got pushed around and I just listen same I was out of my mind, the set of my mind. You know, I ended up in every I have every mental hospital in San Francisco. Yeah, and that those kind of things. It's just like I never saw such cruelty as I did in those places. I'll never go back there. Do you know? It's not a place for help. So no place for helps. No. So you know, when I see all this stuff, the depression and stuff, and it's really stigmatized. So you getting back to the stigma. Think I appreciate you sharing that. I've kind of fell off the deep end when my wife left me and I went into that fucked up just I'm lost, I'm depressed, I'm falling, like constant fault like falling. How do I fall while I'm lying in bed in the dark? It just it was amazing in hindsight, amazing in a bad way. So yeah, and I'm shocking. And it did last for a couple of years last year like wow, but reminds me now. So in the mental health arena, say on twitter, facebook and whatnot, a lot of people are both out of one side of their head. They're complaining about the ailments, how bad I feel, how she did, I feel better. On the other half they're saying, oh, why is everybody they always stigmatizing us? Why are they stigmatizing us? and to me I think this is a is a conundrum because effectively they are spreading the stigma on one hand and complaining about the stigma on the other hand. For example, if in the gay community all you ran around was touting aid statistics, people probably wouldn't embrace homosexuality right. So what they did instead was they showed facts. They said here's how age is spread, and so, you know, basically try to do diffuse the stigma with facts. In the case of mass killers, they try to point to the mentally ill, but in fact it's usually angry white guys that are not mentally ill, or at least not diagnosed. So pointing to the facts always helps. But yeah, do you have any thoughts on that? Well, the first thing they're saying that it's like what happened in the age crisis is, you know it. The first thing that I thought about when you said that was all that stuff that surface of people intentionally infecting themselves, Suff stuff that would I don't think that a lot of American knew some of that stuff that was going on because it was something. I thought, this is really bad, just not imagewise. This is really hard to think about on any level that people want just wanted to get the AIDS virus so they would get have it and know they wouldn't have to worry the rest of their life that they might get it. They'd have it and it it's called I didn't want like chicken box in a way. Yeah, I mean they call it breeding, which is just this horrible interesting I've never heard that term of the kind. I mean. I like to say that word because it's like it's so integrated now into that time that they had words for it. They just wanted to they wanted to get ill so that they would be free of it. Yeah, no, I mean there's some some logic in that, I guess. But back to the other point. That wasn't the advertised thing, you know, that's not what they were advertising. To destigmatize homosexuality. So in the same sense, I don't understand people...

...who are complaining about their mental illnesses on one hand and then say, why are you stigmatizing me? I'm horrible, I'm depressed, I feel like Shit. Why are you stigmatizing and just going back and forth. Well, I can think of I don't know, this probably won't make sense to anybody, but I can think of even someone I know here, like, if I've no idea why my phone is now announcing this, I've turned something on, like like when you, I know I've known before, like if you have know something who's hypochondriact or who you know has some issues or thinks they have an undiagnosed illness, like I know someone here who's like that. And like, if you have an undiagnosed illness for twenty two years, you have a diagnosis, and that diagnosis is is not medical, it's it's psychological behavior. Yeah, yes, and you know if you're trying to sell that, you know, if you're trying to sell your situation it. You know as it no one's going to buy it. No one's going to believe this person, ever that she hasn't no diagnosis. And how awful her life is because she has one hour a day. She has no energy. And I'm not saying I'm just saying it's just weird to me because you do have a diagnosis, you know you have some problem, and you could have gotten disability, you know, and not live so horribly. But she wouldn't face that. You know that was true or I'm seeing. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Well, people that it gets back to okay. Like, for example, when I got really poor in San Francisco many years back, I was fucking struggling, couldn't eat, I was shoplift and cheese, you know, just to fucking survived. Wow, I went to the foodstamp place, whatever it's called these days, to get my little ebt card and and I was on the edge, dude, I was on the edge. I stood in line, had nothing to do that day. I was like out of work, out of money, and got up to the lady and filled out the paperwork. She goes, Oh, okay, you're going to get to hundred and seventy five, and I almost almost start to cry. I'm like, Hoph I want to tell like a lot of money, mean you fucking Hell of money. I'm like, Oh, that's amazing and I'm like, what's that paper for? It goes, oh, that's next month's. I'm like to seventy five every month. She goes yeah, and then I literally did start to kind of cry a little bit and I saw wiping my tears and like she goes, she's so, she was trying to be kind. She says, Oh, it's okay, you didn't know. And then, without missing a beat, but you didn't ask. So like well, yeah, that's true, I didn't ask. So all the suffering people go through a lot of times it's because they didn't ask the right questions. So a lot of suffering, I found as people, especially the mentally ill, like look at the president's he suffers from what I've found to be called a Nosa Noitia, which is a mental disease, which means lack of insight. It means you lack the inner the ability to even know that you have a mental disease. So therefore you never go get it treated because you don't think you have one. Okay, and since you never get it treated, you're going to be a fucking mental patient forevermore because you just haven't been diagnosed, because you refuse the diagnosis. Because just because you refuse a diagnosis and refuse to see a doctor doesn't mean you're mentally fit for anything. It's kind of the same way with registering the gun. We make people who buy guns go register them, but we have people with brains that never ever have mental health checks, it's true, and we let them run the country. And that made me think. You know, my doctor now till she has to remind me, like I'm so once in a while she has to remind me that I'm depressed, because I think that I think it's just me. I have law. I have forgotten that I'm in treatment for depression. Well, that's there's a distinction there. I think that she should like. So, you might not be depressed, like actively sad right now, but you clinically have depression. Yes, you know what I mean. Yeah, and, but, but, and I'm I allectually know it, but on a day today function,...

I'm not going around thinking I'm depressed or using it as an excuse right for why I can't do anythings. And and like I'm always being told I'm too isolative, I should get out of my room, and then sometimes I think, well, that's the only place I feel safe yeah, and I see you all. That's why we talked, because I see you out in the lobby a lot. So I'm doing your part for sure to try to interact in inappropriate way. You're not on the street with those. Well, some people. I'm on the street, because that instantially like it's our front yard. Really. Yeah, I have a friend out there and bet I'm really I'm really worried. He's maybe a died last night. I have a friend who is out there who has drug issues and mental health issues. Why do you think it might have died last night? Because I saw him out some out there last night. He had an infection in his arm. I never seen it. Was choozing and I said, Brad, you have to go to the hospital, you have to go to hospital, I'm going to call an ambulance. You have got to go to the hospital. And he's trying to keep he's a smart person. This is a person who saved my life here. This is a strange your who literally saved my life here. I kind of you know, sometimes I wish it hadn't happened, but and he didn't know me and he saved my life. Literally saying he's out there on the street. He got evicted. He could get septic with that thing if he didn't go last night. You know, that's outside and that's like what can I do for him in? But Anyway, what was my point? Damn it. See, that's okay, that's fun, because people listen to the podcast will hear it and like, Oh yeah, that was a neat story. It's really hard when where those meetings people are talking people out front, because it's like I just can't talk about those people because I don't know that. Actually, that was my point. You don't socially isolate any more than most people, and the interesting point is that when you do, those are the kind of folks that you make friends with and interact with. So I think that's powerful. A lot of people sitting there could you little cubicles at their office and go to their because you little comb in the suburbs in the middle of America, and they're like, Oh, I'm social no, you're not. You're sitting in a cubicle, you're sitting in your car and you're sitting in your house. So, mark, like you just said, you think you're socially isolating yourself, you're actually doing a good job we're in the middle of a fucking crazy ass city, dude, right here in this particular neighborhood. You know, just poking your finger out to test the wind is something else here, I know. But I'm also I'm also, I don't know if I've always been this way, but I am pathologically, pathologically over empathetic. I mean, it's just like, I will, I mean, I just it's maybe this is busting the of it. I mean, you know, you have to be kind of tough here, and I will. I will put some if someone needs a dollar and it's my wallet, you know, fine, but I mean, I can't give Brad my last twenty so he can not be sick. You know, it's just like, well, then you'll be horrible. It's a horrible you know, I'm not on drugs, but will. Here's my theory. In not my theory, but the thing I've adopted since I read it a while back, is that we become the average of the five people that we are around the most. So, like Whoa so, therefore, yet don't give you money to people because of the then you'll be poor just like them. So, I mean, I could have given Brad Twenty dollars. I knew yesterday they was probably would be for heroin, but I was trying to get him to go to the hospital right and so I went to my atm to see what there was left and I got a twenty dollar bill and I gave him five and I just thought last night then when I went out to see my thought. I've been thinking that every day now, like the next word I've got hurt is that he died. I'm expecting Brad to die. He's thirty seven years old, is Rhanda. I'm so he's going to die because he when he got out on the street and it was his own fault here. I mean he didn't pay his rent and it's just it's a really weird expense. You've got...

...the mental you know, yester stal health out there. I'm mental health in or. The only difference is you just haven't broke yet, because this is I tell people that I know it's like a mental hospital, but no doctors work here. Yes, dump all the people here in good luck and then if you break, then eventually the property management system will just say, Oh, you didn't pay reditary like cold hard property management. There's no social service involved to help you. That is crazy. So, getting back to the comparative stigma thing real quick before we wrap it up. Only if you could know this is a great people love this because it's way better than just hearing me talk to myself, which is what most of my podcast listeners maybe you can edit it, because if I sound really dumb. Nope, man, your voice sounds great too for podcast. All right, have you ever heard watch the documentary? Do I sound gay? If you've seen the yes, I I can't believe you. Oh, I have a lot to say about that. Amazing. Yeah, because I'm one of those people. We I I'm one of those people who tried to change my voice to not sound gator, to say to not sound gay, because, wow, you've seen that. I watch every documentary can get my hands on, especially that one, because I've been fascinated and like, where's gay land? Where do you adopt that accent? And I'm into just anthropology and human behavior. You like. So you heard what you heard, that it's about a tribe, it's the change, that's the language of the tribe. Well, yeah, but a lot of people don't. I don't know why. I hate those people that you know that you don't but you know, most of people don't sound gay, but I sound gay and I have my own theories and I have I understand their theories and I also listen to a fresh are about linguistics in the debate on, you know, vocal fry and you can I used to try to not sound gay on my own. I never would have, well, I might have, actually I was. I would have been too embarrassed to go to voice coach or whatever it is right try to do that, but I tried on my own and then I just I gave up like he did in the end. I thought what he tried to do I tried to do on my own and it just fuck it. I mean, I can't change my voice. My theory is and they had it in the documentary. There was, but I felt felt like it's just a cross between the masculine and the feminine, and I think they were talking about that, weren't they in put the documentary that it's just my voice and I've sometimes people take them from the south. I don't feel like I sound like a woman now and there are southern gays right and yeah, if you hear a gay guy from the south it's like, oh no, that's gay and south and like like. You sound like you're from San Francisco. It's definitely a Western, you know, accent, but did the first time you heard my voice, didn't you? Didn't you know right away? If there was any question, I'd start assumes, you know, in San Francisco, and you know, it's like I just stopped judging because right, like, look at me, I'm I purposefully don't exude any which direction on purpose. Yeah, I'm some and I don't have an accent. Well, this is why I brought it up, because people from other countries like Russia, the UK, the Ukraine and places like that, they swear I'm one of them and I have an acting coach in five times now, twice, three times in La and twice up here. My lift or Uber driver have said, Dude, what's your accents? I know that accit the you that's a really good American accent, and I'm like no, dude, that's that's my act. This is how I talk. No, no, where are you from? Okay, and I'm like are you doing a really good American accent? Like what the fuck? You have a good American accent. That's true, but I don't I'm not sure what that is to the well, you know, you know when you when you go to Europe and you hear a British, you know, you think that's a British accent. We forget we have an accent, right, right, and we have we have. Yeah, yeah, especially California, where the deep of America. Yeah, I don't know. What what are they thinking? I'm in Europe. What are they I don't know. What do they think when they hear me talk? What's weird to me is, you see, you kind of have a southern Twang, though. Were you from the south at all, or you were from the East Coast? I thought I'm at from a little town in a high desert. So you know,...

...this accent has is not. Okay, so that's not south. That's more gay than south. Totally totally get. And you know what? I can do that. I can do all the the other slang like you know, but I you know, girlfriend and all that stuff. But all right, but you're like a wise I haven't have enough burden. Yeah, I enough burden just to have credibility and have this this this voice. That's what's so hard for me is it's a trip getting older too like as I get older, I find I have to draw up some of the skateboard or slang, the punk rocks Lang. Yeah, the street, but it's hard. Like I say, Hella fucking shit all that. I talk like that all the time still, and I can adopt that around here. I can start, you know, I can kind of, you know, adopt some of the slang from all the that I hear here. If you could eliminate stigma from one or the other, if you could only pick, a genie said I will wipe away stigma from homosexuality or depression. Which would you pick? At this point in my life, I would probably say depression and those kind of mental illnesses that people have some control over. That would be nice. I feel like I've been lucky enough. So give some people like because, you know, just give some schizophrenic people a break. Just go along with it, you know, or just just work with what you have to work with. You know, that's what I do. Just you can. You can deal with the person schizophrenic if they're, you know, and not say me mean and cruel or act on do mean things on their behalf. Yeah, you know, there's just too much. You know, it's all sime you, I'm wondering that time. Maybe they're speaking the language of the architect to us, of the Grand Arcs, whether you call it God or the game program or whatever. Sometimes I'm when I hear a schizophrenic say some weird shit like Purple Basketball, Yo, Yo, and I'm like well, well, I better write that down. I'm pulling out my phone like a better fucking google this sequence of words, thinking that maybe that schizophrenic person is a rip in the Matrix and is telling me something I need to know. So I think if you ignore schizophrenic people on the streets, you do so at your own peril. They are sending you a message. Yeah, that's a good that's good way of putting it. Well, so it's one way to think about when you're trying to be kind to somebody. Just make it a game. Be Kind and remember it's there. You know, Young said about schizophrenia that that it, that is the world they're in and they're they're shifting that world all the time and if you listen to them, it's not they haven't been influenced by what they've seen or heard. Their processing that stuff some way. That's completely differently right. Whole different perspective. I have a something. I lost it. That's fascinating that that you would eliminate the the depression stigma over the homosexual stigma. But is it? Maybe that's because the homosexual stigma's largely been reduced in the past generation. Well, I'll tell you this, even though I've never been hit physically until I came to the Cadillac or yeah, because of I've never been at head violence on the until it came here, which was by accident. But I've seen more mistreatment here at the Cadillac of mental health people, by people management, everybody, by the industry that's here to help us. HMM. And so I guess that's why I'm I I I noticed it more. I notice that I'm a minority here, which is really interesting when you what kind of Milady. Well, I'm within the CATALAC I'm with a community. I'm white and there's a larger Latino population here and yeah, I don't know about black population, but I'm part of it. You know I'm not. It's hind of more isolated here. It's weird being part of a minority population when we're still we've had a lifetime of entitlement yeah, you know what I mean? Is that weird? I find that weird to because we're definitely there are far fewer white people in here, but...

...we carry the burden of like Oh, well, you had you had chance all your life, buddy. Well, yeah, and I never feel like I was. I'm I was, even though I was a gay white male. I never felt like I was. I wasn't afforded all those proses. Now and when back when your kid, you don't understand, you don't realize what white privilege is. You don't really because you live in a white world. So your privilege is relative to other white people. So when you're another privilege. Yeah, so when you're a kid and you're in like third grade and you're just comparing yourself to other rich white kids and you're the poor white kid, you don't it's hard to comprehend what it. You know, spos is something. I had a clean well, right, and you know, my sister didn't fucking government cheese. I know there's no government cheese, but I had to clean that fucking pilled filter. You know, I didn't have any crank to do like they do now. That just backwashes it. So yeah, there was there was a burden with all the privilege. Yeah, well, when you working for the privileged people. Yeah, I don't want to convolute. The word privilege in that sense is just kind of weird, because we do have white privilege and man, but it just sucks that sometimes I feel guilty that it waste it, but I'm the like, how do I better use my white privilege to help everybody instead of just me? Oh, I just want to help me. Now I don't, you know, just trying to survive, just get through this stage. I just want to sell my abilities. I wanted to see how bad that is. I want to sell my village to marry somebody. I don't care about it marriage at all. Go to a state where they don't allow it and I'll just say, Hey, I'll give you my California a gay marriage ticket. I'm going to put ads in certain countries. That's how do yeah, you know, and advertise for a mayor some somebody in another culture who wants to come here and I'll marry them. That's interesting thing. That's another thing I found about mental illness in homosexuality is that in some parts of the world neither one is even recognized as a thing. No, I mean, I mean it. The behavior occurs, but society is and parts of the world just don't acknowledge them as the thing. When you first came here, you said you were kind of very vocal about your very vocal about being having depression. Yeah, and I'm sorry, that's kind of amazing. You know, this dudes come to be our director and he was kind of like really out and I thought, wow, you know, you weren't bothered at all by it. I will as I'm functioning right. I got the job, they hired me. I mean, yeah, nobody. Mean you were looking like for I was kind of looking around. I'm thinking about what do you do? The city services? I was thinking, you know, I know a good one. It's four hundred an hour. I mean, you know, I thought I was already looking for I go to the group. Actually that St Francis really close. It's pretty cool. Depression group twice a week. I don't go twice a week because a lot of times I'm fine green. Being around depressed people fucking depresses a shit out of me when I'm feeling fine, and I'm every depressed person I'm sure would feel the same way. But yeah, if you're feeling fine. The last thing you want to be around is depressed people. When you're depressed, the best place to go is to a depression meeting. I don't think there's many to I don't think there's many depressed people here. Well, we mean well with with depression or actively depressed. Like there's probably quite a few people depression, but I've just I think a lot of people have PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. So because depression won't manifest well, be hard for you to deal with in this situation. Is a tenant with it? Maybe, I don't know. Isolation will kill you still. I mean either way, because we all live in little boxes and so if you're slightly depressed, the isolation will just put you in deeper. And a lot of people here are too poor to before the internet or TV, so they literally sit in a box all day and stare at the wall. It's twisted. We got to fix that anyway. Cool Man, I appreciate you coming on. Let's let's talk about other weird stuff in the future. Yeah, okay, I'll have a segment called ask mark. I know styles on my cheese and sat five following joy. Excuse me,.

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