John | Podcasting
John | Podcasting

Episode · 2 years ago

Could Emotional Dysregulation Be Another Type Of Spectrum Disorder?

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Becky, from That B-Word Podcast, is my special guest this week as she lets me bounce my theory off her that bipolar, borderline, ADHD and related impairments are all part of the same spectrum of conditions. @ThatBWord1 @BipolarStyle 
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It's only and now it's online Bible this stylecom motions with Bible style. Welcome back to buy polar style. I'm Johnny Emotions and today my very special guest, you may remember her from previous episodes, is becky from that be word podcast. How are you doing, Becky? Hey, John Idan, pretty good. How are you doing? Things are moving along and you know, I hit you up on twitter the other day because I was reading the interesting book and there was a passage in the book that got me to think it and I wanted to have a discussion about something that only you could help me discuss. M That my other friends on my other podcasts are into this stuff, so I thought you would be perfect, especially because your podcast, that b word, covers things like bipolar and borderline personality disorder. So you're already halfway there. So, if you don't mind, let me just read about two or three sentences that prompted me to reach out to you. Cool. Yeah, all right. So I'll just pick it up here in the middle of the paragraph. If Mania expresses anxiety, depression and under arousal express shame. Shame, like anxiety, is an attachment emotion. Quote. Whenever someone becomes significant to us. Whenever another's caring, respect or valuing matters, the possibility for generating shame emerges. Right psychologist Gershen Kaufman, the origin of shame is the feeling of having been cut off from the parents, of having lost the connection, if only momentarily. It cannot be helped. It occurs unavoidably as part of maturing. So in thinking about that, I started to wonder if you know how autism is a spectrum, aspurger's autism and that sort of thing, and it's also kind of a mysterious impairment, let's call it, much in the same way that bipolar, borderline and even anxiety to some extent, although anxieties quite a bit more understood. But especially with a bipolar and borderline, they appear to have many similar symptoms. Almost, okay, a cause and effect type of thing. One of the bigger things that people talk about borderline is the inability to maintain relationships. It's kind of chaotic in that sense. MMM, but of course if you are feeling shame and anxious because of mood swings, then yeah, of course it's going to be hard to maintain relationship ships. In other words, what I'm getting at is, if you have bipolar disorder and display those symptoms, would they not cause the same problems that a borderline diagnosis would cause? And then vice versa? If your borderline and can't maintain relationships as easily as a fully functioning person, let's say, then might that cause shame and anxiety apparent in a bipolar person? Right? Yeah, I know, there's so much overlap it's hard to tell, like one where one ends in the other begins. So I think there's definitely a likelihood that they're on the same spectrum. And okay, so this is the part that's kind of the mind fuck. Excuse my language. He right. I'm reading a book on Add adhd, and that passage I just read, I just swapped out the words mania with hyperactivity and depression with lethargy. The actual paragraph reads, if hyperactivity expresses anxiety, lethargy and under arousal express...

...shame. That's what got me thinking, like, wait a second, it's bipolar disorder is very similar to Adhd, to attention deficit disorder, in many cases, including where we seem to get it from, which tends to be the DNA from our parents brought into the real world in the context of your upbringing and the environment that you were raised in. Let's call it your programming. In other words, people are programmed to be add or Adhd, and I'm starting to think in the same way, maybe we are also programmed to become bipolar. Those activities in that environment then trigger what people commonly call a chemical imbalance, although that's kind of a misnomer. What do you think about that? I mean the fact that they're so closely resembled and that I could just simply switch out a couple of words, hyperactivity for mania, lethargy for depression, and the passage makes sense. Yeah, it does. Yeah, I would never have known that you switched out those words if you hadn't have told me. I never thought about the similaries between bipolar disorder and adhd before. Until, until I started reading about Adhd, I simply thought it was, hmm, hyperactivity, like, for lack of a better word, just spazzy kids running around outer control. That's my idea of hyperactivity and attention. Then on the other side, attention deficit disorder. I thought it was meant like the slow kids who couldn't pay attention. But I've since I've since found out it's not that way. So apparently adhd and add a good metaphor they included in this particular book, is so, say you have all these in neurons firing off in your head, like imagine their little cars, but they are cars with no drivers. They're dumb cars. They need a traffic cop to tell them where to go, which way to go, when to stop, when to go. Apparently, in the adhd mind that traffic cop is fallen asleep, so it's just kind of mayhem up there. Yeah, that's why they give people with adhd effectively speed. They give them something, some type of amphetamine product like riddling, that simply wakes up the traffic cop, because it seems counter intuitive to me, like why would you give a hyperactive person speed? Well, now I know why. They give it the apparently the hyperactivity is just a lack of control of the automobiles crashing through each other through the intersection, and the speed simply wakes up the traffic cop and allows them to pause and make better decisions based on the incoming data. Some that I'm thinking. Well, how's that? You know that disregulation of those types of emotions much different than bipolar disorder. Again, we're still addressing some kind of traffic cops, some kind of, you know, organizer of thoughts, but the medicine that they've given us for bipolar disorders so much different. Oh yeah, it's the exact oppset. Yeah, yeah, in many cases for sure, like I'm not sure the mechanisms for antipsychotics, for example. But I know, and I discovered all this because I keep a list of all the meds I've been taking. I've been trying to work on this issue for twenty years, right, and I think I've gone through all of them. I think there might be one new med for bipolar that's come out in the past year that I haven't taken. So I basically stopped. It vibrid. You ever tried vibrid? Hmm? No, yeah, it's a computed that one. Yeah, it's like two or three years old. May Be a little older than that, but I remember taking it. That was the last kind of antipsychotic bipolar specific med I took and none of them were having any...

...effect. So I kept going back to different doctors and then I moved out of state to a different place and thought hey, I'll start fresh. I'm not going to tell them like, and we talked about this offline, when you get a diagnosis and it feels right and it says yeah, that fits, that's a reason. Like when I got diagnosed as bipolar, I thought, wow, okay, that explains x, Y and Z. So what do I do? I kind of put that on like a badge and the next time I go to a doctor I say, yeah, I have bipolar disorder. Well, that doctors not gonna you know, it doesn't have much time. He's got another patient twenty minutes. He's just going to go with what I told him. It's not really his role to crack my brain open and start doing therapy on me right there. He's just going to go with what I told him. Give me the next MED that might work, so on and so forth. And like maybe you know as well as I, they don't like to give us depression meds, antidepressants, MMM, because they think, oh, it might make you more mannic. Well, if, if it's not mania, if you don't have bipolar disorder, then antidepressant won't be that bad for you. So here's where I ended up on this kind of spectrum discussion. I went to a doctor I said, look, I've tried everything. I'm super depressed. I've tried all of the antipsychotics that exist. Of never ever had antidepressants. Could be at least try. Like I'm my feeling. I'm feeling depressed and anxious. So this new doctor, who I didn't say anything about bipolar to, based on what I presented and how I looked and felt and all that, prescribed antidepressants and anxiety met. Interesting. Now the anxiety made it turned out after talking to others, was almost like a placebo. was like antihistamine. So it wasn't any hard. Wasn't like hardcore. Yeah, so on the same one, I think. Yeah, and yeah, okay, it made me shaky at first. Didn't really address the anxiety and the and the antidepressant I might have worked. I just couldn't tell. I'm still like generally depressed. So after a few months of this, I like, well, why am I still depressed? I thought I started to think a little deeper. I'm like, you know what it's because I'm off track. Up If you can remember back the last time you were happy a lot of time just because you are engaged in your life. You are living on purpose. I guess is a good way to put it, you had a job you liked, you know, the living situation or your friends and family or social circles were in alignments, let's say, and you know, you just had a reason to get up each day and like that's what I'm missing. I'm just missing the engagement with my own life. So I worked backwards. I'm like, how about if I just engage my life and see if that doesn't alleviate some of the depression and anxiety, my thought being that if I'm too busy living my life in a way that I want to live, I won't have time to focus on the depression. It's not saying that I won't get depressed, but when I get depressed and focus on it, that's all I become is just depressed, depressed, depressed. HMM. Yeah, yeah, I've always wondered the same thing. I hyper like focusing too much on whatever illness you have there, it's depression or by board disorder or board inline, actually will make it worse. But then again, there's something to be said for understanding your illness. I mean saying that you are correctly diagnosed right. That's super, super important. I can't stress that enough. I think I brought it up in the newbies guy to bipolar disorder a couple of episodes ago, and the first thing is the diagnosis. Well, man, it is so critical to keep asking questions. So if you, the listener out there, just got diagnosed for the first time with...

...bipolar, I would really hesitate kind of wearing that as your new superhero emblem. It might not be accurate and you might be chasing a phantom. Really, if you're if it's an inaccurate diagnosis, and I'm not saying people are misdiagnosing people on purpose or maliciously, it just happens because it's such a complex disorder. I'm just saying like, just because one doctor said you had this, it might have meant that he just read or she just read a book about it yesterday, and that's the top of their mind right now. And again, doctors in America don't have a lot of time to spend with you and therapy is expensive. So the doctor handing out the medicine is just going to try to relieve the symptoms that you present and it might be wrong, though diagnosis itself might be wrong. So I think it's important to keep seeing at least get a second opinion, maybe a third even. I'm not saying go shop around until you get the answer you want. Of course that would be counterproductive. I'm just saying that don't accept the first thing somebody throws on you, especially when it's so stigmatizing, like like bipolar disorder, for example, when I was talking about my depression and anxiety at the emergency room one day here in Louisiana, versus California, boy, those doctors in the emergency room had no problem when somebody had mentioned, not me, but somebody had mentioned borderline. One of the doctors, like the Er surgeon or something, rolled their eyes like Oh, yeah, you don't want that. Yes, law calls. I'm like what, they still think that way here? Like medical doctors in an ear in a, you know, major city, in a town in America or whatever, are still stigmatizing people with bipolar and borderline. So if you're yeah, if you're new to the game, let's say, just be really careful on accepting the diagnosis at first. Don't resist it if it's accurate, don't, like I said, don't shop around to get the answer you want, but man get a second opinion or a third opinion so that you know where you might be on the spectrum, because after twenty years of taken antipsychotics, maybe I'm not bipolar at all anyway, which is kind of fortunate that I called the show bipolar style instead of I have bipolar disorder and make maybe it's kind of sort of and I don't really have a problem shifting or changing or evolving with what I learn. How many times have you gone to the doctor to get a diagnosis and did you accept your first bipolar disorder diagnosis? I did. It made months. So a lot of the things kind of clicked when when I got diagnosed and I never really questioned it. I didn't always take my meds like I was supposed to, but I never questioned that that I might have my pholey disorder. But as far as borderline goes, I think even more so that even that seemed to fit my symptoms even more. HMM. Yeah, sometimes I think, especially the more I read. I was just reading borderline symptoms earlier before we got on the air. Sometimes I think those are just the result of the other disorders, like if you're super anxious, super depressed, if you have bipolar like mania and depression, will having having those would cause the symptoms that are collectively called borderline personality disorder, and I'm like, that's not fair to call the symptoms of collection of symptoms from other disorder a new disorder the like. Where does that stop? You know, I was thinking about that the other day actually, and I was thinking that it might have been the other way around,...

...because it seems to me that a lot of the things that create borderline symptoms happen when you're a lot younger than than is normal. We then diploy disorder easually presents itself. Right, right, yeah, so I was thinking it might be the other way around, that having borderline personalities order makes you more likely to be diagnosed with bipolar disorder because of, you know, the mood swings essentially. Yeah, yeah, the things you present just line up with Oh, this new diagnosis and, yeah, the borderline thing. When you read the symptoms of borderline, I don't know, maybe it's because I have it or something, but they seem like things that will Geez, this is like a horoscope, you know. Anybody could have these symptoms to some extent. Of sure, if they get bad, then yeah, you're going to have a problem. But when I read the symptoms like at. Most people I know have these, including people I know that never see a psychiatrist or a therapist, that I'm like, well, this is just like a horoscope or fortune cookie, just like like. But then when you get that diagnosis of bipolar, it's like, oh my gosh, this is a serious medical condition, only because they can treat it with pills like a they don't normally start you off with pills when you have borderline, like to my regulation, I don't. I've never been given any kind of medication for borderline. Have you not specifically now I think that sometimes they'll give you like anti anxiety medicines to deal with the anxiety, but nothing specifically for borderline anxiety. Is Trip. Yeah, anxiety apparent. Well, anxiety is like a natural response. We can get out of control if we're not programmed correctly as babies, infants, children and such. So I think that's a big reason why so many people have anxiety these days. It's not it's not that more people have it. I think well maybe, maybe, generation x, self included, as raised a bunch of people that are super anxious because of single parent and the in the house or just stressed out family situations. That will cause an infant to develop anxiety. Anxiety over time can cause you to be depressed. Anxiety and depression now look like I can't form relationships. I can't form relationships. Then turns into the symptoms that look like bipolar disorder. It gets I hesitate to talk too deeply about this because I'm not like a medical professional, not a scientist. I do lots of research, so I try not to like spread a bunch of bullshit, but I I just wish people would stay openminded about their diagnosis so that they might realize it's something else, like when I'd like. Now I Take Med's like there's an adult version of riddling, and that Shit works pretty well. I'm not depressed right now and I feel like I'm on track. I'm not sure if it's cause or effect. Like I said, when I feel like I'm living on purpose and I'm aligned with my social circles and things like that, I'm less depressed. But is it the CONCERTA that I take now that has allowed me to sort out my thoughts better? Because it was add all along? That eliminates my anxiety and the symptoms that look like borderline or bipolar. So the whole thing is really a mystery. I'm not like down on myself about it and I think it's smart to change as you get new information, you know, to go with the flow. Yeah, you got to qualify the information. It's not like, I don't know, Hokey like which Dr kind of fixes for things or without diminishing religion, like prayer, will not solve these issues either, especially because a lot of times they came from the parents themselves, which is something that's hard for people to admit, both as a as a child. It's hard...

...to, quote unquote, blame your parent when I don't think it's once you understand the whole, like the big picture of all of this, there is no blame. It just your parents were fucked up because their parents were fucked up and their parents were funing because their parents were fucked up. And we just come from a long line of a fuckery right, because our parents lived through literally world wars and they struggled through depressions, like grandparents struggle through depressions, and then there was war and then, if you're born in the summer of love or during the Vietnam era, there's that stress and society and then, when you're old enough to have kids. Now it's the you know, s or s or early thousand or whatever, whatever is happening in society right it there is going to affect the way you raise your kids. And now all of a sudden, either because we just have the Internet and more people are aware, aware of things like that and able to freely speak about them. So I can't tell if there's more anxiety or we just see more of it, but it's all. It all goes back to our environment we were raised in. Yeah, I don't know what to do about that. I can't go back and right history. Right, you can like have so instead of blame me, and I think it's just important to learn. HMM, except the new things we find. Do you have any traits? Have you ever considered something other than borderline or bipolar for your condition, in this case, like add or Adhd? Have you ever thought that you might have had that? I never did. My husband has adhd and his symptoms look completely different from mine. Really it's an and I never really considered the fact that I might have Adhd, although it kind of makes sense the way you use your parking about. Yeah, it is interesting. I've in the like anything else, once you start studying one topic, everything kind of starts to align with that topic. I just saw a story last night. The said kids that of the youngest in class tend to have a higher instance of Adhd and depression. Well, when I was in first grade aid, I went home at Christmas break and when I came back they made me a second greater. So I went from being a quote unquote normal kid to living out the rest of my life as the youngest kid in class. Yeah, I didn't think much about it then. Is the youngest in class year you were. Yeah, that's that's fastinted. Of course there kindergarten earlier than everybody else, but so, yeah, it all. It's like. That's why it's so important to figure out, like let's get the labels right. Let's figure out what we're doing to kids when they're infants. I mean even the the court of zone levels of a mother while she's pregnant affects the development of her child's brain in the womb right. So the kid could pop out with anxiety, not not depression. There's no like basis for depression yet, but definitely a fight or flight response when you're baby and that's you looking for your parents eyes, you know, and you darting all around the room looking for acceptance and all that stuff. That's kind of the similar, similar things to the way I felt. And then I realized that, wait a second, I think I was diagnosed as that as a younger child. I just completely put it out of my mind. Never even thought about it. Really, it's totally weird, right. And then when I get in my twenties I get diagnosis bipolar, like what? In hindsight, I'm like, why did I accept that diagnosis? Why didn't I just remember that I had been diagnosed Adihd as a child, but I was just never treated for it because my parent didn't want to acknowledge they're part of all of that. Yeah, I don't know if they didn't want to acknowledge their part of it or if they were narcissistic and didn't want to accept that they had a impaired child. Right, they didn't want to accept responsibility for anything that might have caused that or something like that.

Yeah, I can understand how. Yeah, I can understand how a parent might fight that diagnosis. Yeah, especially if they're not evolved in the way that like, for example, you and I are, because we're in the mental health scene, let's call it. So, if you know, to have kids, I would even raise my own kids differently than I did. I thought I did a pretty good job raising my kids and they turned out fine. But did they? Are they going to develop anxiety and depression because I raised them in a high stress environment, because I was strung out on stress and just were? It's hard to yeah, but again, because now I know what I know, I'm not looking at my mom and my dad. Didn't blame me them because I know exactly who raised my mom and my dad. My grandparents were alive when I was younger and I got to see who raise them. So in many ways I think, well, even though you, mom and Dad, don't accept your conditions, I will accept your conditions because I'm more aware. I've studied a lot more about mental health and I kind of accept them as they are. It's difficult sometimes because sometimes they they pretend that they're fine or they pretend that because I study mental health, that I must be the crazy one. I don't know. But again back to the blame and the fault thing. I just don't think there's room for it in in a healthy recovery but facts or facts and we are programmed at at infancy to be the way we are and whatever chemical set we have in our brain at the time, it's going to process it that way. Is it really fascinating bit in this book that talks about the Guy who wrote this book I'm reading. It's called scattered. It's good or mate, who also wrote the addiction book about Hungry Ghosts. Ever heard that? HMM. The guy's a great author. He works with homeless people up in Canada on the West Coast, and all of his books are both medical and speak from experience. Because Dr Matte has add himself. He brought up a great point that all of his kids, despite having the same parents, were raised by different parents. Follow yeah, in other words, like when the first kid was born, and this would be the same for me or anybody that has kids. When you first kids born, they're born into a situation with parents that don't know shit about parenting. They're just making it all up, and there's the stress of having a first kid. You go from zero kids to one kid. That's a big jump and so you're in a stressful environment. Can we make it? Do we save enough money to raise this kid? Blah, Blah Blah. Now by the time the next kid comes along you've got practice parents. Don't worry about it, no worries, I could change a diaper with one hand, the whole thing right. There's no apprehension or panic, nothing like that. With the second kid, if you have a third or fourth or continue on with more kids, you're going to be a different set of parents each time. So I found even those subtle differences really important to where you are developed in the in the whole process of your family. So if you were the firstborn, a second or a thirdborn, there's lots of studies. I think of Freud and Adler and a couple of others. Even young did studies on birth order and what it means, and a lot of it just kind of points to what Dr Mate says, that you know you can do despite having the same parents. Each kid is raised by a different parent because of the timeline, because the adults evolved even, of course, of a day or a week, of course over nine months or a couple of years. Those are going to be different parents, different financial situation, different living situations. Born into a family of three instead of a family of two parents. So there's so much involved with their programming that we just we don't ignore, but we just it's not something that's top of mind for most people. So a lot of this comes into place of the anxiety...

...is the depressions we have, the emotional states, the mood swings, the things that lead to the symptoms that we show could come from any direction. So the fact that I think it's a spectrum now, not medically proven or anything, but just seeing that all these quote unquote disorders are collections of symptoms that that overlap like then diagram. One of the interesting things I've found out about adhd that really set with me was the idea of something called counter will, psychological term. Kids develop it when we feel we're being coerced, and the interesting thing about counter will in a child is that kids know if they're being coerced, whether it's with a spanking or with candy. The idea that we're being coerced alone will affect us a child with Adhd, because we will push against that and sometimes the idea that we're distracted or can't finish anything is directly related to counter will. It's not that we can't, is we refuse, like we not in control of refusing, but our brain is saying, wait a second, I'm being coerced here. Someone's trying to get me to do something that I didn't think of myself and voluntarily. You know, accept this is coercion and I'm not having it. Of We don't. Yeah, we don't speak that through. We don't like carry the thought out into the public like but I found the whole idea of counter will to be really interesting, especially with like I'm an anarchist. I just refuse authority. While I'm like, well, maybe that's routed directly to the counter will. Maybe anytime someone tells me I'm supposed to do something or live a certain way, my inherent reaction is to counter it, is to be against that. Yeah, I kind of do rest that. That's resonate with me a little B bit as far as I wasn't as a kid anyway. Yeah, yeah, and and I do. It was funny because I found my parents moved recently and when they are moving, I found a bunch of paperwork that had some of my documents from when they had taken me to see a psychologist as as a child and evidently one of the psychologists diagnosed me with Adhd and one said I did not have a dhd but that I was just a mini Beatle, that manipulative child. Wow, that yeah, the doctor talks about that in this book to how we're when I say we, it could be applied to borderline kids, to adhd kids or whatnot. But yeah, the word manipulative comes up a lot. They think we're trying to manipulate the situation. And what's really interesting was attention deficit disorder. He brought it up like a bank account, like our ore. We are out of attention. Nobody gave us the proper attention as child's, as children, I mean when we were forming, when we were adolescence, you know, two years old, six years older, wherever. We didn't get the proper kind of attention. That's what we're at a deficit of. It's not that we cannot pay attention. That's what was the block with me. I'm like, well, I can pay attention, I'm hiper focused, I can I can do all these things, but even that hyper focus is a is a tool for distracting yourself. You're distracting yourself from the pressure, in the anxiety of life by hiper focusing on a thing that you're really interested in. So it just comes to this big kind of cluster fucking my mind and I'm like, well, is it counter will? Am I pushing against what's really going on here? HMM. It's fascinating. And what's really interesting, especially like in in Louisiana, for example, I have no problem telling people like my when I go to a doctor appointment or a therapy appointment or somebody else got like the Pharmacy, oh I'm just picking up my add meds. No one bats an eye. No one,...

...yea, it's an eye. If I said I was picking up my bipolar meds, they've do you know, back up step. It's all of a sudden become quiet of so many, so many differences between the stigmas involved in each particular disorder. And like the doctor was the surgeon that the ear was talking about, rolling his eyes about borderline people. No, you don't want that, like well, I don't think people who have that attitual voice. You know what I mean? That was that's the programming we got. So how do we with people talk about spreading awareness in the mental health community? I'm like, it drives me crazy because, yes, we know, we're aware. It exists, but let's be more aware of of other things, like the causes. And is there a blame? Oh, it's not a blame, it's the programming we received as kid. So I wish, I wish when we spread awareness we were more specific about what to be aware of, because just being aware that people are anxious and depressed, that's kind of falls on deaf ears. Everyone, I think, inherently knows that people get anxious and depressed and to stifle that is one thing. That's an argument. You know, based on your family upbringing, whether you stifle your feelings and don't make a scene or or if you just let it out and cry like a baby, or however you want to frame it. But the idea that we're just running around accepting labels and then trying to fit our personality to the label. Like, for example, if someone said you had bipolar disorder, when to go read on wikipedia and the Mayo Clinic and all those websites about bipolar disorder. And now every every time I'm starting to feel a certain way, I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's bipolar disorder and that's okay because that's what I have. But in my mind now I'm like it's not. Okay, it might not be what you have. Just just be you, like try to be the best you you can be, without living like, like say, living down to the label. I would say, living up to the label of someone says, yes, you're a rich prince of Malaysia, like well, okay, I'm going to live up to that. Well, if they say you your bipolar, borderline Adhd, I think it's important also not to live down to that label, like try to rise above it and, yeah, and show people that hey, normal people, like we talked about, what you focus on kind of growing. There's people with other kind of ailments that that's not the only thing they talk about. In fact, in like physical ailments, it's often the opposite. For example, if you have if you're missing a leg, you don't post all the time on the Internet like Whoa whoe was me in my vacant space where my leg was no, they're posting pictures of them with the prosthetic leg overcoming their impairment and running a race. I don't see that as much in the mental health world. A lot of times, if you say, Hey, look, I've figured out a way to feel better and to succeed in life. Others will say, well, don't rub it in our faces. That kind of thing, Mike. Why can't we support people's success is in the mental health field without knocking them down or not trying to make it a contest like, well, you must not have it as bad as I have it. Then you know who knows, who knows who has it worse. It doesn't even matter. I think it's important that we focus on what. Yeah, what we can do. Yeah, make it, make it more like the Special Olympics or the pair Olympics or any Olympics where people are overcoming their shortcomings. Like I was thought would be cool to have like a mental health Olympics or mental illness Olympics, or however you want to call it, where people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and hardcore depression and all those things come together in an auditorium and perform feats of greatness, whether it's painting or creating music or making podcast or writing books or whatever people can do to prove that their illness is not their entire being. That would be fun. So if anybody out there is...

...a organizer and has lots of energy, maybe organize a mental illness Olympics instead of a contest as to who can get the most votes or the most traffic to the contest website. I've seen that with both the mental health field and with the PODCAST field, and I'm like, well, there's a podcast award show. What's The podcast award show about? And I looked at the criteria. It's like yeah, whoever gets the most votes. I'm I quitting the most votes for what? What's the criteria? Oh, the most votes to our website, I might go. So, basically, whoever generates the most traffic wins that. How's that? A podcast will what's the celebration of a podcast? I feel similarly about there's a mental health contest. Thing goes out like best advocate or or most this or most that, and then when I look into the criteria and like there is no criteria. It's a it's a traffic contest. So I wish that we focused on important things like overcoming and focusing on the on the good that we do inherently as individuals, not that the good we bring to a website. HMM, yeah, that's definitely true, but it's isn't it true also that you have to in order for for the stigma to be lessened because you're doing, you know, things other than, you know, bemoaning your illness and you're doing things like creating music or whatever you have going on. Isn't it true that you have to first have gone through and accepted your illness and made it public in a way for that stigma to be lessened? Yeah, I think so, kind of like in the way like like pick somebody that's a big start. The only the two that come to mine would be somebody like Maria Bamford or Russell brand, where they have succeeded after they've, quote unquote, come out as a mental health patient. Is that? Is that kind of which talking about, like like you have to acknowledge it first in order to be an advocate or a champion of the of the cause. In other words, if you just go and succeed, well then there's no point in it. Announcing it. There's like people say that staying or Elon Musk have bipolar but not they have never, liked come out specifically and said they've alluded to it, but they've alluded to it in ways that were so casual you can't really tell if they were just using the word wrong or yeah, what right? And we don't know them personally, so we can't tell it that guy just stays up too many hours or that guy's are creating genius regardless. But you're right. So that makes sense. I mean you have to kind of like you can't be can't go to the is there a Gay Olympics? You couldn't go to the town. Well, if there was, you mean you wouldn't. You couldn't go to the Gay Olympics unless you actually came out first as being gay. Like you have to acknowledge the stigma, I guess, is what you're really doing before you can go and overcome it. But what I see is a lot of people acknowledging the stigma, but then they don't do anything to overcome it. They kind of wallow in the mire and like, okay, I acknowledge my stigma and now I'm just going to sit here and wine about it year after year on twitter. I'm like, don't do that. Show us what you can do next, like show us that you are a capable advocate and leader by becoming better. You know what I mean. So I think if we don't become better, we're horrible advocates. If we just keep repeating the same thing just for clicks and likes. Then that is the contest, the Click and light contest. But who does that serve? I think to a point it only serves the people getting the clicks and the likes. It might help people at first to hear about others, but it's not going to help them...

...anymore if those people that they're listening to and following are not progressing in their recovery. Yeah, it sound Jadd to a sound cynical um a little bit. I kind of am. I'm wondering if it's just with age or my personality in general, but sometimes I just give just fed up of like everything's got to be a contest or like in capitalism, like well, how much money does it make? So to imply that we're supposed to be in a some kind of a contest to generate traffic or generate money, I think defeats the purpose. But that's why I like your podcast, for example, and a handful of others, but there aren't many because most of them, when it gets down to it, they're they're playing that old dopamine game for clicks and money anyway. So how is your podcast doing? By the way, it's doing pretty well. I got I took a pretty extended hiatus there for a while, but I'm back doing doing them weekly. So Nice, pretty good. have any guests you want to talk about? Any guests you have recently you want to mention? Because this is not a commercial venture, we could talk about all of the great things and promote the best of the best. Who did I have on recently? Let's see. Well, coming up I'm going to have cathy from discussing dissociation back on and I really enjoyed our first conversation because I learned a lot about dissociative identity disorder from her and some I'm looking forward to that and hopefully I can learn them even more from her next time. Yeah, that sounds neat. What is yeah, for people who don't know what disassociative identity disorder is, can you like summarize it in a nutshell? It well, it's what used to be called multiple personality disorder, but that's kind of a misnomer. But it's when it's a response to trauma that occurs generally as a child, where you create altars to enjoy the trauma so you don't have to do it deal with it in your daty day life. Does that make sense totally? It's that that's actually quite amazing really, the power of the brain to be able to do that. I mean we all do it in a sense, like we create our defense mechanisms, whether it's hyper focus or, like we were talking about earlier, lethargy, where you just or counter will, where like Nope, not doing that. But the idea that you would come up with a new altar, is to call it like an alter ego or secondary character in your mind, and to be able to refer to that character consistently and accurately each time is amazing to me. I'm not saying that, hey, like that's a great skill actors could have, because it sounds miserable honestly, because I'm sure to have little control over when the characters pop up. So that is is that similar to like Sybil, back that the classic book from the Early Days of s I think there's a book called Sybil which was about multiple personalities? Yeah, but I think Sybil was a criminal or I think there's crime involved, and I don't want to imply that people with the ID or criminals at all, of course. Yeah, well, I think that it's the same kind of concept, that that you can create different personalities for yourself. Yeah, and they can pop up, you know, in response to stress, their trauma or, you know, for no reason at all. That sounds neat, is I mean it sounds neat as a topic of discussion and discovery. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely interesting when you talk to like, do you know...

...what the recovery process is like? Do you try to merge all of them or do you try to sew them all together to understand that it's all you? Or I'm curious about that. I think that's what we're going to be talking about next time. Wow. So, if you listening to us now, the best way, the fastest way I would find becky show is that be wordcom that be weirdcom Yep, or just look for that be word on itunes. Yeah, for sure. And if you're well into like twitter, it's at that B word one, the number one MMM. Yeah, and Beckie's really responsive. So if, yeah, especially if you're going to go, if you're into something like disassociative identity disorder, which is a law. That's a mouthful right there. Yeah, but it makes sense and it's a lot more fair than saying split personality. Right. That's sometimes we oversimplify the labels and then they get exactly like just bipolars. The same way people assume that, oh, you're either you're either fucked up, sad and depressed in bed and useless, or you're super hyper and manic and useless. You know what I mean? Like, wait, no, we live in the whole range. That's just the extremes. You're right, and same way. And I've been stifling the attention deficit disorder thing too, because, like, wait, I can pay attention. I must not have that. I'm fast, a bit hyper, Michael, that that's just hypo manic. I'm Hypo Mania. Might not be either. It could be both. I don't know. I feel fine today. Yeah, that yeah, well, knock on, yeah, yeah, well, it's great to have you. I'm sorry over talk, but sometimes I need like somebody who understands in and knows what I'm talking about to bounce ideas off of. And I appreciate your time so that I think this will turn out good, to think people like to hear what we're talking about and appreciate your show. I think you can have probably doing more shows more frequently than this show. So if you listen to bipolar style and you like it, you will love that be word. So Click Pause, fast forward to the end of this or whatever, but once you're done, immediately go out and search for that B word and give it a listen. Becky is a fantastic interviewer. She listens more than she talks, which is great, and just kind of yeah, yeah, it's a peaceful experience to listen to. So I appreciate you've spend some time with me and I hope to see you soon on the Internet and absolutely, yeah, for sure. So if you want to follow me, I'm at at bipolar style on twitter and you can also find the show bipolar stylecom. So I thank you for your time and we'll see you listeners next time or on the Internet style on cheese five following joy. Excuse me,.

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